As a matter of fact, we have had a look at Common Core, and no, we don’t get it either. Check out this fourth grade math problem, and if you become confused, just remember to “use number bonds to help you skip-count by seven by making ten or adding to the ones.”

https://twitter.com/AmaruDynasty/status/425482754520662019

Well said.

Related:

Twitchy coverage of Common Core

  • nc ✓s & balances

    We had plain old times tables. They were boring, but they worked. Then came School House Rock. Not boring, and it worked! This is CRAP!

    • Michelle ✓classified

      Friiiiiiiicken LOVED SchoolHouse Rock!

      • Man From AUNTIE

        I am a bill on Capital Hill. I always thing of that when I hear SchoolHouse Rock. Or Conjunction Junction or whatever it was call.

        • Michelle ✓classified

          I’m just a bill. Yes, I’m only a bill and I’m sitting here on Capitol Hill… Conjunction Junction, what’s your function?….Lollie, Lollie, Lollie get your adverbs here

          It’s a bad idea to get me started, I so hardcore loved SchoolHouse Rock. As an adult, I bought the tapes!

          • Man From AUNTIE

            Ok, that is just wrong…and burn me a copy too will you? 😀

          • NC1861
          • Rick Shorrock

            Haha! Jack Sheldon was the trumpet player on The Merv Griffin Show!

          • driech

            The part about Bill just dying because they won’t consider him reminds me of Harry Reid…

          • Dominic De Falco

            Oh crap, now I feel really old!

          • Kimihiro Watanuki

            Me, too, man. But admit growing up in the 80s was awesome.

          • m444ss

            Horrible example in the video … of course, the federal Congress has no power to dictate when and where school buses stop.

            In any case, this long, slow process is now moot as our Most High and Glorious King has, by his own decree, determined that he no longer needs Congress to act as he now how The Royal Pen and Paper.

          • Merl Johnston

            I am going to re-post this. Maybe some of these elected officials will see it and start questioning why some bills are starting in the Senate.

          • Happy Dragon

            Remember the noun song at the Statue of Liberty?

          • NC1861

            Ask and you shall receive!
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZRj5IfAyjU

          • Happy Dragon

            When we watched that in my class, I think in third grade, everyone cried out “EEWWWWW!” when the girl’s friend caught her. *reverting to childhood*

          • Michelle ✓classified
          • Deserttrek

            Conjunction Junction, what’s your function? “exchanging adverbs for phrases and clauses” as if most teachers today know what they are.

          • E Quilibrate

            Playin’ around w/that stuff’ll make ya crazy Michelle.
            It’ll also get ya another upvote.

          • bibi1167

            OMG, yes. I taught my kids the preamble by singing it- Schoolhouse Rock style, like everyone my age.

          • Michelle ✓classified

            It was a pure genius teaching method! Engaging, singing, cartoons and we actually learned from them. It’s a shame kids today don’t have such a thing.

          • deano24

            Now a days they even don’t read the bill. Now they just pass it in Congress.

          • Michelle ✓classified

            And when a bill doesn’t pass in Congress, our current King just issues Executive Orders.

        • colonialmarine

          ” I’m an Amendment to be, and I’m hoping that they’ll ratify me”, …”there’s alot of flag burners who have got to much freedom, I want to make it legal for policemen to beat ’em”

          and btw, to all the mouth breathing progresso-trolls who want to jump in and say that I’m missing the snark in Matt Groening’s “Simpsons” sendoff of the Schoolhouse Rock classic “I’m just a Bill”, screw you, I get it, it’s still funny.

          “An Amendment to Be” (runtime 1 minute 25 seconds)
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl3sgKj6oTQ

        • JT

          Now it is “I am only a Bill, sitting here in a back room with a load of cash from unnamed sources, and maybe someday I will become a law”

        • Elizabeth Bennett

          Elbow room, elbow room; Interplanet Janet, she’s a galaxy girl; The Great American Melting poooot, Three is a magic number…. I Loved it too and I have it on tape for my kids
          as well

        • jenoaks

          Love Conjunction Junction!

      • Jay Stevens

        Michelle wrote:
        “Friiiiiiiicken LOVED SchoolHouse Rock!”

        After my time. Darn, I miss all the fun.

        • Jill

          Thanks to DVDs and Youtube, both of my children have been treated to Schoolhouse Rock.

          • 97E

            If I ever have children (doubtful, considering I’m 37 and still single >.<), they'll definitely be introduced.

            I remember that from the first grade. Back when patriotism was still considered a positive character trait in this country.

          • porkchop6209

            Don’t despair, Abraham was over a hundred before Sarai got pregnant. Think of it as practice time to get it right.

      • Finrod Felagund

        Don’t forget Schoolhouse Rock Rocks! — which was a bunch of 90s bands doing covers of the Schoolhouse Rock songs. Blind Melon did an awesome cover of Three Is A Magic Number, and the band that covered I’m Just A Bill (forget who) did an excellent job as well (particularly during the ‘stuck in committee’ bit, which was sung and played at half speed appropriately).

      • Zathras11 @B5

        …available on DVD!

        • Michelle ✓classified

          I need to hunt them down. I bought them all on VHS in the 90’s, but no longer have a VCR.

      • Kimihiro Watanuki

        I loved those, too.

    • Man From AUNTIE

      I was taught, make a ten then use the left over and add to the 10. So, 7+7 is 7+3 makes 10. You have 4 left over and add that to the 10, so you have 14.

      • Bathing Suit Area

        Which is the same thing these kids are being taught.

        • Man From AUNTIE

          It is the directions that are confusing, at least on that paper. Now if number bond was covered earlier and we aren’t seeing it, that is different. Same with skip-counting. Hell my teacher didn’t mind us using the fingers to get the answer, she even encouraged it.

          • Bathing Suit Area

            I’d find it very hard to believe that those terms aren’t covered earlier. This whole story seems like a beat up based on “math teachers are using slightly different terminology than that did thirty years ago, damn you Obama!”

          • Maxwell

            That’s what I was thinking. They probably covered the terminology in an earlier lesson. The kids probably understand the directions quite well, but the parent, as a newcomer coming in at lesson 5, understanding the terminology makes it more confusing.

          • Man From AUNTIE

            Bingo.

            Um Maxwell, since you and I are agreeing with BSA does that mean we are going to hell?

          • Michelle ✓classified

            Yes.

          • Man From AUNTIE

            Thanks Michelle, love you too. Fed Ex me some water and fire extinguishers please.

          • Michelle ✓classified

            You got it! And a bag of ice.

          • Man From AUNTIE

            Sweet, I got water and fire extinguishers and ice that will be water by the time I open the box coming to me in hell.

            Michelle you’re the greatest. 😀

          • Michelle ✓classified

            Don’t give up hope – this IS BSA we’re talking about. No doubt he’ll say something very soon that you will passionately disagree with. The slate will be clean.

          • Man From AUNTIE

            Unfortunately I do believe you are right. He can be a decent person to talk with, even if what he says I believe to be wrong, but when he is stuck on the hyperbole, I just want to revoke his internet rights. *grin*

          • Michelle ✓classified

            I barely tolerate him, and I mean barely. I’m to the point with him right now where his schtick has grown boring. He simply likes to be a torn in the side just to be a thorn in the side, he brings no value to any discussion. In fact, he starting to make me wish Disqus had a block feature.

          • E Quilibrate

            Thought he was going to ask if it meant they were going steady.

          • Maxwell

            Not really, out of all the liberals who visit this forum, BSA is the most educated and fun to talk to. I feel at least.

          • Man From AUNTIE

            He generally is when he ain’t using hyperbole. Sorry BSA but you do you it….a lot….and frequently. But I can see your point there Maxwell. I think he would be a great counterpoint if the hyperbole was dropped or at least dialed back to 2.

          • porkchop6209

            Skipping along blissfully, hand in hand, as you whistle popular Irish jigs.

          • Michelle ✓classified

            Ok, with that taken into consideration, in this particular problem, what’s the purpose of using number bonds and skip counting just to arrive at the simple solution: 7+7=14. The instructions also suggest adding the ones. What ones?

            It’s one thing to take a student through a maze on a math problem, but another thing to get them to understand WHY they used that route and HOW that knowledge is applied.

            I fail to see that here.

          • Maxwell

            7 + 7 isn’t a simple solution for some people, however. Number bonds and skip counting might be easier for them since it breaks it down into more simple arithmetic.

            I could flip around your second paragraph and say that a student who just knows that 7 + 7 is 14 doesn’t understand why. Actually, in the example above it shows that a student needs to understand what the value of 7 is, and how it can be broken down into smaller easier to add numbers (in this example 3 & 4.) So it might be slightly better…?

            Like I stated in a different comment. I feel the teacher explained what the students needed to know in class (all the rules, and applications and what not.) It would also be in the textbook. The directions are vague, but math directions have been like that for as long as I can remember. As long as the students understand the rule and know what it is, they should be able to do the homework no problem.

          • Michael Rice

            I know why because I know if I have sseven and add seven I have 14. It’s not hard.

            If some kids don’t get that, teach them the other way. Don’t force the kids who do get it to change to something they don’t get.

          • Maxwell

            Why not show it the kids who get it? Show them the different applications, and make them slightly more well-rounded in their knowledge.

          • Jeff McCabe

            Cause this way is simpler than memorizing the answer. It’s the way people add in their heads.

          • schveiguy

            Jeff, most kids at this age KNOW 7 + 7 is 14. The memorization is already over. What is the point of revisiting it? What new knowledge will they gain? Like much of our education system, we spend so much time teaching things that the students will never use in real life.

          • Michelle ✓classified

            I hear what you’re saying, but my question still remains unanswered. You say, “As long as the students understand the rule and know what it is, they should be able to do the homework no problem.” Where will they apply the use of this rule? Knowing the rule and how to execute it doesn’t mean they understand the math.

            Ever try to do math on a young cashier? It flips them out. For example, if my total is $11.51 and I don’t have exact change, but I do have a $20, two $1s and a penny to give them so I can get $10.50 back instead of a bunch of $1s and pennies…if flips them out. They get so confused and some even try to hand the $2.01 back to me thinking I handed them too much money without realizing why I did that. That is basic fricken math and kids today don’t know it.

          • Maxwell

            To be fair, I would probably give you back the $2.01, too, unless you explained why you did it. I think it’s more a courteous thing, than a math thing. And not all young people are bad at basic math, but some, like yours truly, are. And people like me should be allowed to work with money, whether as a cashier or an accountant.

            The example above could be used when shopping. I have 20 dollars, and I want to buy something that is $6.99 and $8.99. Like most people, I round up to $7 and $9. I know the value of 7 is equal to 1 & 6, so I add 1 to 9 to get me 10, then 6 to 10 get me 16. I know the value of 20, is equal to 10 & 10, so I can subtract 10 from 16 to get me 6, and ten from 20 to get me 10. I subtract 6 from 10 to get me 4. I know my total will be $16 and I will have 4$ left over.

            It seems more confusing, but for some people it just works better as we are working with easier numbers.

          • Michelle ✓classified

            “To be fair, I would probably give you back the $2.01, too, unless you explained why you did it. I think it’s more a courteous thing, than a math thing.”

            That only suggests to me that you also lack thinking skills and basic math. Thing is, with older cashiers (meaning 35+), they never blink at why I do that and perfectly understand without question. And some even thank me for doing that.

          • porkchop6209

            Please see my above reply to Maxwell. Until we can change these types of compromising thinking patterns, I don’t know what we are supposed to do.

          • Michelle ✓classified

            ” I round up to $7 and $9. I know the value of 7 is equal to 1 & 6, so I add 1 to 9 to get me 10, then 6 to 10 get me 16.” Because adding 7 + 9 is too challenging for you?

          • Maxwell

            I am bad at math, I will admit it. It’s nothing I’m ashamed of, it’s just part of who I am. Some people get math, others don’t. Those who don’t find tricks and unique ways to figure out answers. Is it really so bad, as long they still get the correct answer? There’s more than one way to get to San Fran from New York, some ways just take longer.

            And to your other comment, it’s not a lack of thinking skills or math skills. If you gave me 22.01 on your 11.51 order, I will assume you gave me too much money. I have worked in retail and in fast food, and I can count on one hand the number of times someone gave more bills than necessary to receive more convenient change. It just doesn’t happen that often, especially with credit cards being much more common. Maybe older cashiers understand because it was more common back when they were younger?

          • Michelle ✓classified

            No, not getting math isn’t a bad thing and neither is needing to find unique ways to solve the problems. My point is, what good is it doing our students to teach them to use unique ways instead of more direct and simple ways? Forgive me, but I just fail to understand why students on a national level need to be taught that in order to understand how 7 + 9 = 16, they must first find the 10 and then add the leftover. If they can add 10 + 6, why can’t they add 7 + 9? The world does not function in quantities of 10. I absolutely suck at math, at 46 yrs old I still used my fingers and toes, but because I was taught the most direct and simple ways, the concepts are a no brainer. Do you honestly think that in countries where students excel at math they are teaching them to subtract from the second number to get the first number to a 10, and then add in the leftover to arrive at the solution?

            The use of credit cards should not excuse anyone from being able to do simple math. The problem today is, in addition to this Common Core nonsense, people are taught to be 100% reliant on computers to think for them. Was it more common back then? Probably, but that’s because we were taught and held accountable for better math skills, to actually think. Is it so wrong to expect people to actually think these days? Or is it OK to raise a generation that knows nothing more than how to swipe a card?

            Obviously what we are doing in the US and how we’re doing it isn’t working.

          • CatHerder ✓fire! ✓fire!

            I admit to being bad at math too, algebra was nearly my Waterloo. This is not math though, just simple arithmetic. First graders did it once upon a time, and I don’t believe kids are dumber now than then. Memorization drill is a good thing, imo.

          • Jeff

            Hmm. “memorization drill is a good thing”, yet you admit you are bad at
            math. Maybe if we spent more time with kids to build actual
            understanding of place value, composition / decomposition of number, and
            conceptual understanding then memorization would be grounded in true
            understanding of mathematical concepts and we would have fewer people
            saying “I’m not good at math”.

          • schveiguy

            Both catherder, who is a proponent of memorization, and Maxwell, who is not (and says that the method in the problem above is how he/she adds 7+7), admit to being bad at math. Methinks there may be something else to it besides the method of learning 7+7. This is of course, not knowing much about either of their backgrounds or schooling. But claiming that there is some “proof” in one individual being bad at math, and also being a proponent of memorization, is a fallacy.

          • Jon Kelley

            Um. “Math.” “Arithmetic.” Same-same.

            Add-Subtract-Mulitiply-Divide is all the same thing, whether you call it “basic math” (as we do here,) “basic maths” (England, Australia, New Zealand,) or “basic arithmetic” (as it is most properly known.)

            “Algebra,” “Trigonometry,” “Calculus” – all subsets of “advanced” or “higher” mathematics/math/maths/arithmetic – as well as “Geometry,” “Toplology,” and any of a number of other individual subjects.

            As far as “dumbing down” – I’ve never heard the phrase “number bonding,” or even “skip counting,” so I guess these are “new innovations. Dunno.

            But, what damned sure IS dumbing down our kids is allowing – Hell, REQUIRING – the use of electronic calculators for basic and mid-level maths! When I was in school, merely HAVING an electronic calculator with you in maths class would get you bounced with a Failing mark for the semester (since maths, for me, was always in between Chemistry and Physics, and all three were at one end of the building and my locker at another, this may explain why I was a sprinter in high school…)

            Whatever happened to the good old slide rule? The batteries never went flat, you still had to know how to USE the thing, and chances were that, by the time you’d learned to use one, you’d already learned how to do maths with log tables anyhow (which is how a slide rule works – sliding logarithmic scales, with a sliding hairline cursor.)

            I find it telling that I went back to school a few years ago. Not wanting to jump in too far, I didn’t take a calculus course straight away – I jumped into second-year algebra instead, going through trig and into calculus.

            I didn’t have the calculator that was “recommended” for the course, so I printed a set of log tables and trig tables and went to class.

            You know, I could work problems FASTER with the paper tables than kids could with their calculators? And that was not having even used those tables before the rest of these kids had even started kindergarten! They were wondering what I was doing (but the instructor got it, he had no trouble.)

            I was also the only one who didn’t ask for batteries when the calculator went TU in the middle of an exam – because I didn’t need them (and most of these kids wrecked the exam, because we were told at the beginning of class for the term that “spare batteries would not be made available…)

            You want dumbing down? THERE you go!

          • porkchop6209

            And such, sir, is the fallacy of common core methodology- 2+2=Oh, who really gives a flip? You showed up to participate. PASS!
            My middle son is an engineer and runs his own welding/fabrication business. IQ of 172 when he was 12, took his SAT’s then, almost perfect score, yet growing up would sometimes defy logic doing some of the dumbest things, by trade and training I’m an automotive/heavy truck/forklift/heavy equipment mechanic, which encompasses a ton of math and algebra, particularly electronics and hydraulics. Day in and day out when dealing with people we hire, it gets frustratingly tiresome to manage and deal with shortcomings that a little applied thinking skills, initiative and common sense would solve, yet we find ourselves nursemaiding.(Is that even proper King’s English?) Now, I’ve certainly screwed up more than my share of stuff over the years, thus I’m not throwing stones, but really, sometimes one has to explain the most simplified and rudimentary solutions over and over and over again and they just don’t get it. I’m convinced it’s drugs along with a failure on the part of our schools to teach both basic and critical thinking skills.

          • Jon Kelley

            Concur. I’ve worked in a number of trades, and currently consider myself a “design mechanic.” (I didn’t finish MET. Medical reasons.)

            I’ve had a number of apprentices, and it’s amazing how many of them I’ve had to ask, “How did you ever graduate high school?”

            – Little to no understanding of simple algebra.
            – No (or less) understanding of essential trigonometry (SIN-COS-TAN and “solving the triangle.”)
            – No understanding of basic analytic geometry
            – Can barely even ADD.
            – Hell, could barely even WRITE coherently! (Reports, personal notes, professional notes, …)
            – Many could not even SPEAK coherently, either.

            But you want to work in a mechanical trade, or in fabrication? Without an understanding of basic skills?

            Makes me want to go to the school system here and demand my money back – because I could do a better job than they could. I didn’t have the time to teach the stuff you should have learned in school, I don’t know why they released you untaught.

            However, it’s a multifaceted problem:
            – Dumbing down of education (ESL, “teaching to the test.”)
            – Lack of parental involvement (it’s been proven that parents involved at home result in better-educated kids.)
            – Increased class sizes (not everyone is academically-inclined, some need more personalised teaching.)
            – Prevalence of drugs (and concomitant problems.)
            – Prevalence of broken homes (forcing the remaining parent to work, spending less time at home with kiddies.)
            – Loss of stigmatisation of single parenting (see previous.)
            – “Welfare queens” having more kids than they have time, energy, or resources for (see previous two points)

            The list goes on, but those are the immediately-apparent factors.

            But, since I don’t have more letters /after/ my last name than /in/ it, no-one listens to me. I don’t have to go to college/uni to see this – I see (and understand) it every day. Directly.

          • AMSilver

            I would add

            – Removing the teacher’s ability to discipline, concurrent with parents not teaching discipline at home
            -Passing children who do not learn material to the next grade so you don’t hurt their feelings

            and

            – Teachers who are never held accountable for their failure, and earn more simply by hanging around, rather than by merit

            to your list. Personally, I think larger class sizes work in a world where teachers can maintain discipline and there are secondary resources (parents, tutors) to help the kids who need that extra boost. A study hour where tutors are available to help kids, or a tutor program where the kids who understand the material can earn money helping those who don’t is a more cost effective solution than splitting up classes and adding more teachers.

          • Jon Kelley

            Again, concur. Tenure should be scrapped. “Social Promotion” should be scrapped (and punished – the faculty, not the students.) Your third point would be addressed again by my first.)

            I’ve been told I should be a teacher. I do enjoy teaching. I do not enjoy kids acting up – nor do I tolerate it. Understand that, given kids these days, I would make liberal and effective use of a left jab and rigging tape – play up, you get taped to your seat and your mouth taped over. Fight me, and I give you a short nap (left jab) and tape you up anyhow.

            When you don’t show up for your next class, you can tell your teacher that it’s because you acted up in MY class, and I wasn’t having any of it.

            The study hour should probably not be made mandatory – it was bad enough that I got four or five years ahead of the system (I learned more in a Saturday afternoon at the library than I did in school all week, and the school wouldn’t accommodate that,) and I was at my worst when bored. The tutor programme? Would have been nice ot have it more organised, and I wouldn’t say no to making more money. Besides, the best way to understand what you have learned is to teach it to someone else.

          • porkchop6209

            Too, I’ve often joked ( Master’s in Smart Azz- BS in, well, cows make it. ) “Remember the old Star Trek? Phasers? That’s what our teachers need. Drop one kid in the floor on stun, make him pee himself in front of his friends, no more school disruptions!”
            Our kids were taught they’d better not act out in school, or bully, and if they saw someone getting bullied they’d better intervene and put a stop to it or they had to face me when they got home. God’s Laws/My Rules. More often than not, if they screwed up, after the discipline session, sit down at the kitchen table with Mr. Webster’s masterpiece, 500 words, phonetic’s, definition, and a sentence. Had to be random, not in order. At least if they were going to be punished they were going to learn something intelligent from it. Might have hated my guts, but danged if they aren’t quite articulate.

          • porkchop6209

            When I started fourth grade, I read my Virginia History book cover to cover the first night, and remembered most all of it. Can still see the cover in my mind, I love history! Teacher praised me for it in front of the class (I wasn’t bragging, I just said I had read it all and loved it), other kids beat my azz on the playground later, spit on me, for “making them look bad”. That’s always great for the ‘ole self confidence! Stuff like that goes on every day in our schools even now.

          • Jon Kelley

            Again, don’t get me started. It was funny that kids would always demand to see my notes – but never asked for a translation (I developed a private shorthand: consisted of Greek, Latin, math symbols, logic symbols, medical terms, scientific terms, and stuff I made up on my own – it’s been constantly evolving for the last 30 years. I can still read notes I wrote originally, as easily as the stuff I wrote yesterday. Makes perfect sense to me!

            (The only notes “in the clear” were for the last week of a semester, when I had to turn in a notebook for that class, and I’d “translate” my own shorthand into “plain English.”)

          • porkchop6209

            Man, my brain doesn’t function on that level, but good for you. Codes and ciphers have always fascinated me, just haven’t been able to shift into that gear.

          • Jon Kelley

            It wasn’t so much enciphering as merely encoding information into a more efficient format – rather like the old Pittman shorthand, but far more comprehensive and rather more efficient. Being able to write two lines of text to a single narrow-rule line was also helpful – that would allow me to fit a two-hour lecture onto a single sheet of paper, not use all of the backside, and be able to recreate the lecture as I read the page.

            For my part, it was all about efficiency. Use six words in English, or two in Greek. Condense a whole paragraph in English down to one line of Latin and logic.

            No-one else being able to read it was a useful side effect of it, but it wasn’t the primary goal.

            But, thank you… For me, it was just all about making information more convenient to access and recall than anything else.

          • porkchop6209

            That you could process and convert at a rapid pace while both listening and writing essentially three trains of thought speaks volumes, I suppose dissemination then became a cinch? I’ve tried to adopt, when dealing with projects and teaching new hires, a “chess game” analogy, planning and trying to stay multiple steps ahead, strategizing and factoring for “what if”, but “what if” can be mitigated to a large degree with careful planning and attention to detail. My son is a master at it, both the game itself and processing multiple lines of thought. He loves to play and it comes naturally to him, makes me jealous as He!! sometimes. When he was 12,13,14 he entered some local tournaments where they wanted inner city kids, under privileged youngsters to learn critical thinking skills. The guy that organized them through the Salvation Army sent out flyers to the schools around here for them to be on Saturdays. He brought one home and wanted to go, so, in between other sports seasons, I said sure, figured it would be fun for him and he might learn from it. The instructor, I can’t remember his name but I could dig out the certificates Cory got to find it, was a good player himself. About the third or fourth Saturday they did the thing, I went to pick Cory up, he told me the guy wanted to see me, seems Cory was smoking him nearly every set. He wanted to know how I taught him to play like that, that he had played since he was a small child, his dad was really good, Capt. of his Chess Clubs in high school, college, wanted to try to teach kids how to think on their feet, that sort of stuff. All I could tell him was it just came so naturally to him, I introduced him to the game, he beat me so fast and badly I couldn’t keep up, so I got him a good computer program for it. Anyway, he’s like that with business, he keeps up with the projects, time, money, supplies, what’s next five jumps down, one of the reasons he’s doing well. I believe if he ever tried to work a regular job again, he’d feel like he was drowning. I just want the employees to keep their minds on what they are doing, not waste resources or screw up something stupidly or hurt themselves or one of us because they don’t think and pay attention. Oh, don’t think we haven’t had our challenges with Cory either, he’s not the “perfect” kid, far from it.

          • Jon Kelley

            I more “play at” chess than “play” chess – but I’ve proven to be an excellent tactician (ask my old commander…) and I’m more at home in the middle of a disaster in progress than most people are sitting, with their feet up, reading.

            Just a difference in how the mind works, I suppose. There are very few cases where I can actually concentrate on something to the exclusion of all else, although I’ve been less good at that as I’ve gotten older (and racked up concussions and plain ol’ hits to the melon…)

          • porkchop6209

            The head and neck are not the most ideal shock absorbing devices. Too many times I have used soft, fleshy parts of my anatomy to protect hard, seemingly inflexible portions of nature and manufactured marvels. Pay for my youthful indiscretions every day, particularly when I wish to do essential things such as: breathe, go to the bathroom for study time, compress certain areas of couches or beds, work, hunt, fish, hike, shoot, camp or other ideal recreational endeavors. If I might venture there with this query-where do you live? State only is sufficient.

          • Jon Kelley

            Grew up in Indiana.

            Mustered out in California.

            Been bloody EVERYWHERE in between. Literally.

            Some of it was “youthful indescretions,” most of it is “price paid for life in service to others.” Why do I get the feeling we’d have fun comparing medical histories? :)

          • porkchop6209

            Well, if I haven’t said it before, let me now, straight up- Thank You!, for your service and sacrifice. I would expound, yet there is no need, I think you already know where I would go. Recent legislative actions toward our veterans have been, to say the least, disgusting and, IMHO, treasonous. I’d best stop there for now so that all the NSA can do is chew on it.
            I would venture a guess at which branch, but too, I hate to assume and you know what they say about that. Are you still in Kommiefornication?

          • Jon Kelley

            Sadly, yes. And if you guessed USAF, spot-on. (USAF/SOC.)

            And, not why I did it, but you’re welcome (and thank you.) My reasons were FAR more personal…

            dragonland2001 AT yahoo DOT com, if you like.

            JDK

          • porkchop6209

            No, Mr. Kelly, not basic skills, ESSENTIAL skills. Since we have a parallel career/thought process( I consider myself a re-engineer more often than not ). Regardless of whether it’s a leg on a wood stove, a hitch on a trailer, or properly building or repairing the largest Sky Crane in the world, understanding of and adherence to proper processes of engineering, manufacture and repair means the difference between success or massive disaster. Lives depend on it! Our economy depends on it.
            That being said, American engineers are basically screwed because of globalization, at least new ones are. Where a good ME or CE could easily anticipate high five/low six figure salaries and a reasonable modicum of security, not any more. Why should a company spend that when thru H1-NB programs, they can hit India, China, Pakistan, Bangladesh, or many other areas and pluck for $32,000-$37,000?
            I wanted my son to get his MBA on top of, but he dropped out and countered with “Why should I drop $45,000-$60,000 more for the piece of parchment when no one is going to pay me anywhere near what I’m making running my own business? I can use that to buy land, build a facility, invest, better equipment, more employees. After all, the money’s what it is all about, right?” Now how am I to argue the logic of that? He is that smart. When he was in 9th, 10th, 11th grade I used to check him out early on Thursdays and Fridays, esp. during bow season, which he dearly loves and is damn good at, we’ve a room full of trophies to prove it, to take him hunting and fishing. School got wind of it, principal calls me, laying me out over how critical it was to his education and well being that he be filling a seat. I rationalized how it was actually better he be in a stand thinking about his life’s direction than in a seat wishing he was in the woods. “Where your heart is” and all that sort of thing. Oh NO! He needs to be in school! And he threatened to sic law enforcement on me. I retorted “How is it going to benefit him to be there to hear again what he already knows? For you it’s about the Federal dollars, not his well being.” He shot back “Because he might miss something he needs to know!” Then I really pi$$ed him off when I bit back- “How, he’s already smarter than you are!” He slammed the phone down on me. And as near as I can tell, my boy is earning about five times what he is as a principal. So again, who’s the genius?

          • porkchop6209

            Oh, BTW, go to this link, our local city paper, and read the Sunday lead and the one about county officials “re-examining” homeschooling for religious reasons, which they want to stop. We live in the county, the Supt was one of my coaches/teachers in the city high school, I’m 51, that’s career entrencement. http://www.godanriver.com
            Also, somewhere way down the list I wrote a diatribe last night about Jeff’s “statistics”, I hope you can find the time to look at it and find some value from it.

          • elixelx

            If 3 hamburgers cost $12, how much is one hamburger?
            If 3x=12 how much is x?
            Yeah I know it’s a matter of cognitive dissonance to understand all those horrible symbols like x and =; and it’s a positive leap of understanding that x is really a hamburger!

          • Carolyn#OYSD

            How do we know X is a hamburger? Do we have a picture of x showing it as a hamburger? Our children NEED to know and relate to us WHY X is a hamburger before we can even begin to solve for X. /insert sarc tag for the snark challenged

          • porkchop6209

            Why X Y Z? Momma said Facetious is as Facetious does, or was that Confusisodus?

          • CatHerder ✓fire! ✓fire!

            Thanks for the slam, I was feeling altogether too good for my own welfare. Peace on you.

          • porkchop6209

            Momma said “Too big fer yer britches, take ya down a notch or two!” Of course, Momma also said an alligator is so mean ’cause he’s the Devil!

          • porkchop6209

            I’ll see your X and raise you a Why?

          • porkchop6209

            I’ve often remarked that whomever came up with Algebra had wwwaaaaaayyyyyyy too much time on their hands. Pi are not square, pi are round, cornbread are square. In addition, I’ve never dug up a square root, all have been rounded and crookeded. They told me I still had to take the test.

          • schveiguy

            Heh, pi is a Greek letter. It’s a Greek P. I used to know them all when I was in my fraternity, don’t remember them all now.

          • porkchop6209

            I’ve never P’d in Greek, or Greece. Dabbled in a touch of Latin, though, just enough to be dangerous to it. Let’s see, what do I remember: Semper Fi, Molon Labe, Noli Me Calcare, those sorts of things.

          • Maxwell

            Actually… I’ve seen a 4th grade math textbook (a lot of my friends are exchange students.) I don’t remember exactly what was in it, but it wasn’t addition and multiplication tables.

            No you are right, we are too dependent on computers. I find myself relying on spell check far too often (but I still know how to use a dictionary.) Just because your cashier can’t do math, which he shouldn’t be ringing you up if he can’t, doesn’t mean he won’t contribute to society. He just won’t contribute to it mathematically. I can assure you, he is intelligent in other areas http://avrotor.blogspot.com/2008/12/eight-realms-of-multiple-intelligence.html

          • http://www.chaosandcritters.com Ella Halligan

            No, because those should have been memorized prior to 4th grade. The idea that 4th graders still need assistance figuring out 7+7 is idiotic.

          • Maxwell

            Did you ever think that the student in the example above attends a school for slower learners?

          • Carolyn#OYSD

            Do you not get that this is the very definition of “dumbing down”?

          • Maxwell

            How is this dumbing down? You’re showing someone an alternative way to find the sum. In addition, they have probably taught other methods of finding answers. It’s not dumbing down, it’s adding additional tools and resources to aid students in finding mathematical sums.

          • Carolyn#OYSD

            YOU said “Did you ever think that the student in the example above attends a school for slower learners?”

            When you teach only to the slow learners, you are dumbing down.

          • Maxwell

            A school designed for slow learners wouldn’t have students who are able to grasped advance concepts. Hence why I said a school for slow learners. It, therefore, isn’t hurting the kids of “normal” intelligence.

          • porkchop6209

            Maxwell, I’ve no knowledge how old you are or where you have grown up, but in most educational systems that have been “hijacked” the push is to take LD/ED students, integrate them with regular students, force the level down and work on feelings, not educational achievement as should be taught. We fight it where I’m at all the time.

          • porkchop6209

            Not quite, Carolyn, when educators insist that higher functioning students slow down and lower their learning potential to equal out with ones that either can’t, or worse, won’t reach to achieve more, that is a better definition of dumbing down. I’ve seen it with my own eyes, it’s wrong. Are you a public school teacher? Same point, slightly expounded description.

          • Ranba_Ral

            The problem is that they’ve made the alternative method to find the sum, THE method to find the sum despite it taking more steps and time; and the method, not the correct answer, is the most important thing now.

          • porkchop6209

            Here is a perfect example of that- Our oldest son came to hate our county schools, for various reasons, but he would get off the bus in tears begging me to homeschool him. Now, for the most part he wasn’t bullied, he was/is big and tough as crap. Both played every sport we could get them in, he just didn’t “fit” as well in the typical cliks. A group of educators in our adjacent city system had been working to develop a high tech Magnet program as a stand alone high school. We were fortunate to get involved before it opened and blessed to be a part of getting it off the ground. One of the criteria was that it was tailored to those non-typical students, and they came from all over to attend, smart and determined kids in NASA aeronautics, computer/electronic technologies, robotics, IB level Biologies with DNA coding, cellular tech, that sort of thing. College level learning, push hard-reach high. It was unique and very successful, classes were limited, criteria to attend high. He was in the first starting four year class, though 10th, 11th and some 12th transfers were allowed. We parents were really heavily involved, helping teach classes, starting the PTSA, getting a sports program, chess, those sorts of things. It was exciting from the ground level with great innovators allowed to develop programs outside the traditional box and it was quite dynamic to watch these groups of kids, a hodge podge of outcasts, geeks, nerds, smart country boys and others mesh together and bond to help each other rise up to higher levels. They would stay after classes to mentor one another, develop projects and social programs, hone their skills, integrate new techniques to old methods, it was really neat to watch and be a part of. Time and again I thought “Thank God someone is finally doing something to help these kids!”, and the kids loved it. The teachers and staff would stay way late, many times having to make the kids go home. They literally did not want to go home! No one had ever seen anything like it. Business leaders fell over themselves to get involved, accolades and awards came readily and with great joy. It was working! The community loved it and it became “the school” to attend. At around year 6 or so, the liberal progs got a hold of it, they lost their way. Couldn’t be special, that’s not fair, has to be open to anybody that wants to come, might damage that vital “self esteem thingy”, they just as well ruined it, now it’s run of the mill. Our son thrived there, really stretched and grew there, as did so many others that I believe surely would have been lost in the crowds, just another mediocre face in the sea of faces. Many have moved on to exceptional things they likely would not have achieved had it not been for a very dedicated forward thinking group of educators that said “Hey, let’s do something different!” and dared to believe it would actually work. Now it is “dumbed down” and not exceptional, we shall never know from that who “might have been……”, because of politics and selfishness. Sad, really sad. However, I, and many others are convinced they “saved” our kids, for that we are forever indebted to them for daring to believe and having the audacity to make it work.

          • Michelle ✓classified

            Maxwell – I didn’t suggest that a cashier who can’t do simple math doesn’t contribute to society and isn’t otherwise intelligent.

          • Maxwell

            “Or is it OK to raise a generation that knows nothing more than how to swipe a card?” That comment to me implied you did.

          • Michelle ✓classified

            At the register Maxwell, while working as cashiers – which is what our entire discussion was about. If you decided to broaden that statement beyond the scope of the discussion, that’s on you.

          • Maxwell

            My apologies for assuming.

          • Michelle ✓classified

            It’s all good – I should have been specific and said, “a generation of cashiers…” but thought that would be understood since that’s what we were talking about.

            In the big picture of things that are important in life, having a cashier who understands how to give correct change and understands basic math isn’t really a big deal. A few seconds of confusion at the register isn’t life altering for me or them, it’s just a minor pet peeve of mine hence this discussion. :-)

          • porkchop6209

            Here’s another example- as an automotive and heavy equipment mechanic I know, and treasure, the value of access to information. Knowledge is power, paper parts catalogs have tons of valuable information whereby, when mixed with knowledge and common sense, can solve interchangability problems to get something up and running again. Once thrown away and destroyed, too late, lost to the ages. Computers are great and all, but they can’t solve the problem of solving the problem, if you get my drift. For years I have preached that MBA’s are ruining our country because we get a whole group of 23,4,5,6 year olds coming out of college that have rarely, if ever, broke a sweat at real work, but they come out of school freakin’ experts at telling someone else how to do their job, yet are incapable of doing the same, or even hanging a picture on the wall. Such was the case with a national auto parts chain that I do lots of business with. Far too many times I’d go in to get something for an older vehicle, or match a random part, and if the service person couldn’t look it up on the computer by year, make and model-dead in the water. Now old schooler’s like myself just reached under the counter to retrieve a BOOK and put our brain to work, but it was always a teachable moment to show the younger ones “Don’t give up, more than one way to skin a cat! Even if you don’t like cats, solve the problem at hand.” Passing the torch, as it may be. Well, along comes a company MBA that declares “Those catalogs are obsolete, we have computers, not needed now. Throw them away!” Lots of old timers tried to explain why this was a very bad idea, but folks like us are dinosaurs and dumb as $#!t cause we don’t have “MYDEGREEFROMSCREWU!”, Actually, I’ve been to enough colleges and trade/technical schools to keep a picture frame manufacturer in business, but I digress. So, in the trash they went! Didn’t take too awfully long, company wide, that it became glaringly obvious that this was a bad idea, especially since their chief rival didn’t do it and got the business. Complaints were long, loud, visceral. College boy suddenly didn’t look so smart after all, bad thing is, they always seem to not have to eat their words. I’da made him dig through the landfill to get them back. Sorry this was so long, my fingers are tired, as I’m sure your eyes are, too. Hi Michelle!
            The moral of the story is this though- Don’t pi$$ off crusty old [email protected]$, they might just have had experiences younger ones haven’t enjoyed, less tolerance for people’s BS, and better places to hide the bodies.

          • ledzepp8

            Being bad at math is nothing to be ashamed of…but at this point haven’t you seen problems like 7+9 enough times to automatically know the answer is 16? Why do you struggle with that but have no issue with 1+6 or 3+4?

          • Jeff

            I would argue that “being bad at math” IS a problem. Why do we accept that? Is it OK to be “bad at reading”? I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect that our students (and future adults) learn at least basic algebra and geometry. Why do we tolerate “math phobia”?

          • schveiguy

            Please remember this point you are making when it turns out that common core produces people who are less proficient in math than the previous methods.

          • ledzepp8

            With regards to the change issue, why wouldn’t you assume someone would overpay in that manner because they were trying to get more convenient change? Especially since you seem to be a proponent of breaking math problems into smaller more manageable problems.

          • Maxwell

            Because 20 > 11.51. The person has already handed me enough money to complete their transaction. It’s a simplistic way of thinking I know.

          • http://www.chaosandcritters.com Ella Halligan

            Simplistic and shows a complete lack of critical thinking skills. Why wouldn’t you have at least the modicum of thinking skills required to say, “Gee, they handed me this amount, I wonder if I can see a potential reason why” instead of just assuming everyone is as ignorant as you are about math?

          • Maxwell

            I think it’s funny that you think I lack critical thinking skills. All you know about me is I am bad at math. The only reason you know that is because I posted it here.

          • http://www.chaosandcritters.com Ella Halligan

            If someone hands you an odd amount of money and you don’t take two seconds to ask yourself “why” then you are DEMONSTRATING a lack of critical thinking skills.

          • Maxwell

            I never said I don’t ask why. It’s just not my first assumption that they want more convenient change. I never make assumptions when it comes to other’s money, that’s just rude.

          • http://www.chaosandcritters.com Ella Halligan

            ROFLMAO… someone went to the trouble of giving you a precise amount like that and you don’t want to be “rude”??? Try not being “mathematically and logically illiterate”….

          • Alan

            Not to butt into a private friendly fight, but – seems to me its about two ways of thinking about an odd situation presented to you by another person: 1) assume they made a mistake, or 2) assume they’re maybe trying to do something uncommon but useful. If you initially pick approach #2, you may be slower responding to a mistake but more likely to learn something and give better service.
            Now, if I were to hand you the odd amount, I’d probably give you a clue – “let’s see if we can make this come out even”, or something.

          • http://www.chaosandcritters.com Ella Halligan

            Agreed… which is more rude (since Maxwell seems worried about being “rude”)… to assume the other person is wrong or to assume they might just have a reason for doing what they did?

          • Maxwell

            You don’t think it’s rude, and somewhat arrogant, to assume everyone thinks the same way you do in that situation?

          • porkchop6209

            Please see my above post to Ms. Halligan.

          • porkchop6209

            Ms. Halligan- Maxwell simply has a different thought process than many other people, and we all are different and should celebrate that, too. I actually, maybe oddly, find it kind of nice that he is self-aware enough to interject manners into the transaction, especially in light of the fact that in many customer service exchanges the person, typically a younger one, but not always, is rude, belligerent, and has a condescending demeanor about them. Kind of like, said hatefully- “Yea, thanks for coming by to bother me today while I’m here trying to do MY job SERVING you! Now kiss my heiney!”
            Maxwell simply owned up to, (he took responsibility! YAY! How often do we see that not done?) having trouble doing mathematical calculations inside his head. I’ve known proprietors to keep a pad and pencil by their register in old country stores to write down every transaction “just to be sure”, same process, should we excoriate them, too. Compared to a lot of CSR’s I’ve had to deal with, even if I made him struggle a bit with the math, I’d appreciate his taking time and effort to get it right and with good manners. It may well be that he also can read Tolstoy’s War and Peace cover to cover rapidly and disseminate every point and moral, write a paper in one sitting condensing it for the rest of us, and be a dynamic public speaker bring it to life for us in a reading. God knows I couldn’t. We are all different, yet all much alike. That’s the beauty of the human race. Wouldn’t it be soooo boring if we were all the same, because then, likely, no one could teach any one else a daggone thing. I hope you have a blessed day.

          • Maxwell

            That’s always been the case when someone handed me exact change.

          • porkchop6209

            One of my more recent experiences at this very thing resulted in an argumentative rebuttal that my son and I were trying to rip her off, take advantage of her employer and get her in trouble. It would have been funny, had it not been so real. I had to write it off as she just couldn’t help it, but I felt bad for her. You’d have to scroll the above posts to find the description. I was telling Michelle about it.

          • schveiguy

            Kind of off topic, but the best way to make change (this is how most cashiers did it before the computerized ones) is to “count up” the change until you get to the total.

            11.51 to 22.01:

            1. First we want to get the “cents” to be correct, so you can concentrate on the dollars. So you see you want ‘.51’ to become ‘.01’. You pull out 2 quarters, and you say “12.01”
            2. Now, you add dollars. In this case, you just need a 10, and you say “and 22”

            Let’s say they handed you 20.01:

            1. Same concept to get to .01, you pull out 2 quarters and say “12.01”
            2. For the dollars, you use the largest denomination you can first. In this case, a 5 will get you to 17, pull out a 5 and say “17”
            3. Now, you can’t fit in another 5, so use 1s to get to 20: “18, 19, and 20”

            Alternatively, you can do the dollars first, and then the cents. But in this way, you don’t have to do any subtraction, and you don’t have to “figure out” which bills/coins to give, it’s just one coin or bill at a time. It’s getting rarer, but you still see quite a few cashiers use this method. It’s very accurate and very reassuring to the customer that they got the right change.

          • ledzepp8

            Maybe I’m just confused. You’ve established that you’re a proponent of breaking down numbers into smaller numbers or rounding them to whole numbers to make it easier on you when you add/subtract, etc. Yet you don’t pick up on someone who has a bill for $11 and giving you a $20 and a $1 so that they can get a $10 bill back. You would just say, “Oh shit they overpaid me” and give their $1 back before counting out $9 in change?

            And to be perfectly honest, I do the sort of thing shown in this worksheet myself when I’m adding/subtracting in my head, with bigger numbers. I just think it’s silly for them to be expecting that to be done with a problem like 7+7. 234 + 163…sure. There are certain math problems that you just have to know thru repetition. Just like there are certain words in the English language that you just have to know how to spell thru repetition. A kid can’t sound out words like should, could, would, while, true, etc. They just repeatedly see them until they remember them by sight.

          • Maxwell

            No I see what you’re saying. I’m, instinctively for me, my first impression isn’t they want more convenient change. I can’t do that amount mental math very quickly, especially when I was at Gymboree and working with large numbers.

          • Carolyn#OYSD

            I think this comes down to teaching methods and THIS is the crux of the Common Core problem. 90% of kids are capable of handling straight up memorization. 10% aren’t and need a different method. And I don’t think ANYONE would prevent students from learning an alternative method that works for them. But here is the problem: those who are capable of memorization are required to learn another method, one that is too involved and complicated, when those who are NOT capable of memorization, are NOT required to memorize? Why not just allow the student to use the method that WORKS FOR THEM? It is because Common Core now requires teachers to teach to the lowest common denominator and the effect of that is dumbing down our kids.

          • Jeff

            Incorrect on a couple points. Memorization is not effective for 90% of students, it is much lower, in the neighborhood of 25%. This is particularly true as mathematical concepts increase in complexity. If a process (algorithm) is not built on an actual understanding of the concept, the process will have no meaning or tangibility, thus the brain will more inclined to eliminate it as unnecessary. Further, saying that common core is the “lowest common denominator” is factually and demonstrably untrue. Part of the reason that the math standards are more rigorous is that they demand that students explain their answer and be able to justify their thinking. SImply stating “it just is” is no longer enough. Now, if opponents of the CCSS don’t believe that it is valuable and a demonstration of true understanding to be able to justify one’s thinking, well then I’m afraid those folks cannot be reasoned with. However, when you apply that rationale to other areas, it makes sense to expect that students be able to defend their mathematical thinking.

          • Carolyn#OYSD

            “Part of the reason that the math standards are more rigorous is that they demand that students explain their answer and be able to justify their thinking. SImply stating “it just is” is no longer enough.”

            This is FOURTH grade. This is not college level Real Analysis. Been there. Done that. But NOT in FOURTH grade.

          • Jeff

            But wouldn’t you agree that starting higher level reasoning at the early levels will better prepare kids for precisely that? Why wouldn’t we want students to be able to justify their rationale starting at an early age?

          • Carolyn#OYSD

            NO. Not at 4th grade (and I would even go as far as to say that this is 2nd grade math). Because it is not within their capacity to learn at this age. That is why it is a COLLEGE level class.

          • Jeff

            Addition and subtraction within 100 is actually grade 1 in the CCSS, and in K students must compose and decompose numbers to 19, so I’m not sure why whoever posted this claims that it’s grade 4, because that is just incorrect. Regarding the level of thinking, I think you and I will ultimately disagree. I think that we MUST start children thinking at a higher level at an earlier age, it’s that high level thinking that must be developed early on. If you are saying that high level questioning and reasoning doesn’t have a place in the elementary grades (and of course “high level” is relative), then I think is that low expectation, and not the the CCSS, that is “dumbed down”.

          • AMSilver

            The problem with that is that a child’s brain must be sufficiently developed to understand the problem, and the capacity for higher level math isn’t developed at a young age. There’s a movement starting to actually delay certain math lessons to later grades so the child’s brain has a chance to develop to the level where it can process the concepts. You can’t force a child’s brain to develop faster in order to understand, it’s going to develop at its own pace. If you throw higher level math concepts at them before they can process them, you aren’t going to be teaching children math. You’re going to be teaching them that they can’t do math, they don’t understand math, they don’t like math, and by the time their brain is developed enough to solve those higher level problems, they are going to hate math so much that they won’t do it. You will have taught them to fail at math.

          • Jeff

            That’s what I meant when I said that higher level is relative. Of course we are not teaching calculus in fourth grade, but we can certainly pose higher level questions regarding division. For example, I would argue that in addition to performing the traditional algorithm (NOT in replacement of it), we should also be asking students to demonstrate division using area models. That is a great way for students to demonstrate that not only can they perform memorized steps to a process, but also explain the concept of division. At the same time, it is going above basic regurgitation of process and asking for higher level thinking.

          • AMSilver

            Well, that’s one of the reasons I’m for homeschool. You can monitor your child’s progress and development so that you know when to keep it simple and when to throw in more information. You can add activities that show what the math means, and since you don’t have to worry about 20-30 kids all at different levels of development, you can do it at the optimal time for your child. It’s a win!

          • Jeff

            Fair enough. As someone who works with the math standards on a daily basis, I feel obligated to clarify and correct a ton of incorrect information being touted as fact that is floating around right now. I share in the sentiment that the CCSS were adopted through an essential bribe (RTTT), and that local control is always preferable, but on the content itself there is a ton of misinformation that must be clarified in order for people to form an educated opinion.

          • DeeDee

            I thought you said above that kid’s can’t memorize. Now you want them not only to divide, but demonstrate division using an “area model” (whatever that is) to show memorized steps to a process. Please be consistent. And it’s obvious you haven’t spent much time with little kids.

          • Jeff

            No, what I said was that the first introduction to a concept should not be in the abstract, expecting students to actually learn something by memorization alone. It must be grounded in understanding, and build to the abstract. Further, it is not “demonstrating division” with an area model, but using an area model, or other methods, to explain the concept of division and what the abstract algorithm actually represents. Asking students to prove an algorithm. How do they KNOW that 525 / 3 = 175? Prove to me that it is the case, beyond just memorizing the steps to the process.

          • porkchop6209

            From your perspective, which you are obviously a proponent of CCSS, you make this argument being an individual involved, at some level, in the educational process. However, what concerns me and many, many others is from whence doth this CCSS methodology spring? Where are the studies(data points), done in tightly controlled environments, double blind studies with aggregate groups comparing both projected and actual outcomes from such methods. I’m talking over a long period of time, hard evidence that includes psych data, to validate such a radical changeover to this new method?
            Riddle me this, too, sir- Why do homeschooled children, to a fault even, consistently, time after time, score higher levels on the whole range of standardized tests, college entrance exams, socialization studies and even functional capacity evaluations over public school students? They consistently win in the National Spelling Bee competitions, too.

          • porkchop6209

            Please see my above post that closely mirrors what you have written, albeit from a slightly different angle. I like your “cut to the chase” points better.

          • AMSilver

            And I like your sense of humor better. So there. Psshh… think you can compliment me and get away with it.
            Your story was a great concrete example of the concept I’m trying to get across. The kids who love math and can excel at it aren’t going to love it when it’s this plodding, monstrous beast that Common Core makes it out to be. It’s really a shame that the liberals got ahold of that school you were describing. It sounds like it was absolutely amazing. I’d public school my kids if there were actually schools like that available.

          • porkchop6209

            Hey- I do what I can, but to get cut off at the pass like John Wayne getting the herd back, I mean Geez, what’s a fella to do? Yea, the school was amazing, what happened heartbreaking.
            What I find most troubling is this though, what we are seeing is the insidious practice of approval through low expectation, and you, too, recognize it for what it is. A free pass for under performing teachers, unmotivated students and complacent administration to just squeak by until retirement, graduation or dropout, or until they move on to what they hope is someplace better. And we keep getting the bill for it today, without them wanting, willing or able to shoulder the consequences of tomorrow for said lack of resolve. And again, we get the bill for that, too, and the gov’t. takes by force. Now I realize this is a broad brush with which to paint, but never has moral amongst good teachers been worse. I know because my sister is one, 8th, and our involvement over the years volunteering. Not only are good ones quitting at record numbers, they are actively discouraging young people to join the profession. This will only make it worse. What does this say about us? Record numbers of parents are pulling their kids to homeschool, Virginia allows it for religious reasons, yet now local county officials, our Supt. was my city high school coach, want to “scrutinize” the process more closely, in other words stop it. Go to this link, our local paper, and read Sunday’s lead, then find the above referenced article, too. Like a plaque http://www.godanriver.com, also, because I spent way too much time on this throughout the night, if you wish to scroll way down I wrote a summary that I think encompasses what so many on here feel, has to do with Jeff’s “statistics”. I hope you can find it and can draw something of value from it. Sorry, I know it is an incredible investment of your time. Thanks for the kind words;-D

          • schveiguy

            She said her 9yo sister. 9yo usually means 4th grade. I suppose she could be lying, but I doubt that.

            It’s interesting though, that you would first fault a young lady for incorrectly stating her sister’s age vs. the common core curriculum possibly being poorly constructed.

          • Jeff

            I don’t believe anyone is “lying”. However, I certainly believe that anecdotal examples and screenshots, once spread around the internet, are certainly wide open to being misunderstood and misinterpreted, and other people who are looking for faults are able to take something out of context. It’s like the telephone game. However, I do know without question that in the CCSSM, students are required to be able to compose and decompose numbers to 19 in Kinder, and be able to add and subtract within 100 in grade 1. If you would like to read the standards themselves to verify this, you can visit corestandards.org, which is the official site.

          • schveiguy

            Huh? Either the pic is from her 9yo sister’s homework or it’s not. If you think it is, then what is “just incorrect?” The part that says “NYS Common Core Mathematics Curriculum?” Is the school using the wrong grade homework?

            An interesting side question — if they are able to compose and decompose numbers to 19 in Kindergarten, why do we have to use this method to find the answer to a number less than 19 in the 4th grade?

            I would like to see more of the questions on the page, it is possible that the actual questions are much harder, and the example is just for illustrative purposes. But I would think an example for larger numbers would be more useful in that case.

            I don’t pretend to have knowledge of common core or know exactly what grades are supposed to learn what. I do have knowledge of common sense, and have much experience through high school of having been completely bored with math, since it came to me so easily. This is why the idea of forcing kids who “just know” and “just know why” 7 + 7 is 14 to learn some other method that they likely won’t use really riles me. I look forward to home schooling my children and watching them beat the pants off of CC-educated kids in college.

          • Jeff

            Well that’s kind of my point. It is fact that + / – within 100 is a grade 1 standard, so I’m confused as to why this would be in a fourth grade homework assignment. Is it building to something? Is it reviewing something? It’s hard to say just from this sheet, which is exactly why I’m posting today. We can’t really form an accurate opinion of this without all the facts, and there is so much misinformation floating around. My point here is not that the resource shown is good or bad, but that in the CCSS this is NOT a 4th grade standard. One simple screenshot is not enough to support or denounce the CCSSM.

          • schveiguy

            Just because this method may be good for some students does not mean it is good for all of them. The idea that any specific ‘trick’ of adding 7+7 is important for EVERYONE to learn at ANY grade level, is simply distressing to me. I hope one day that kids will simply be able to learn they way they do best, whatever that way is. This is how my kids will learn everything, and I have no doubts that will serve them better than anything common core could have done for them.

          • porkchop6209

            OK, then, screenshots, anecdotal examples and possible half-truths aside, please share with us these three simple items: A) Your Age, B) How long have you been a teacher? and C) How many children do you actually have that belong to you, not your students?

          • porkchop6209

            To further complicate this argument, your assertion makes it seem as if the assumption is built into CCSS that every brain starts at a zero data point and all function equally to achieve X,Y, or Z on a bar graph at the same constant rate. Now I realize that is a projected argument to an objective outcome, however, the fact that complicates this is that human brains, for all sorts of reasons, function, develop, grow, retain information, regurgitate same and go off on wild tangents for all sorts of reasons and at vastly different rates. Girls brains, typically, develop emotional and rational thinking skills and cognitive thought processes sooner than most male brains, all this XY chromosome stuff aside.
            If CCSS advocates hold the mantra that they can seemingly alter outcomes based on the thought that simply forcing children to learn more complicated problem solving skills by intervening earlier in a child’s brain development stages, thereby manipulating outcomes where the result of the empirical data also lies within their grasp, then I would be very, very concerned that they may inadvertently do far more damage to these children than they are willing, or able, to bear the responsibility for. It is one thing to work with and shape a piece of wood to a desired point to make a functional item of useful furniture out of it, it is wholly another to shape a human being to become a cognitive, functional, decent human being that fits into society. Don’t even have the time, or patience, to go into all the “mental health” issues that may arise.
            By the way, tell us Jeff-Do you have children? If so, how many?

          • http://www.chaosandcritters.com Ella Halligan

            Because it isn’t age appropriate. Classical education has always shown that children’s developmental levels progress from the concrete to the abstract. By forcing children into the abstract BEFORE they have mastered the concrete, we are completely ignoring millennia of understanding about how children learn and develop and are short-circuiting their ability to develop the needed concrete thinking skills… which is exactly the point of Common Core. It’s much easier to persuade them with propaganda and garbage if we bypass the time honored methods of teaching logical thinking skills.

          • Jeff

            I absolutely agree, as someone who works with mathematics every day, I am a firm believer in the concrete > pictorial > abstract progression. That is not mutually exclusive of asking kids to demonstrate and justify their thinking. In fact, asking students to do so by using concretes and visuals leads to a better understanding of what the abstract represents. the CCSSM comes from the same place, asking for a balance of conceptual understanding AND procedural fluency.

          • http://www.chaosandcritters.com Ella Halligan

            You obviously haven’t been paying much attention to CC, then… it is NOT a concrete > pictorial > abstract progression. In fact, there is no logical progression within it whatsoever. It takes the simple and makes it convoluted. My 17 year old math genius son has said many times when reading through Common Core math education that if he had been forced to jump through all of those hoops he would have hated math. It’s all about making ALL kids feel “stupid” at math so that they all feel the “same”. It’s right up there with the new academic disciplinary guidelines issued by Holder stating that even if all rules are applied perfectly equally, you can’t punish the groups of known troublemakers more than the kids who are behaving.

          • Jeff

            That is because it doesn’t prescribe actual pedagogy, it is up to districts to decide how they want to teach the content. However, when you look at the practices, not just the content standards, I think it’s clear that they DO focus on building conceptual understanding along with procedural fluency. Use of models, visualization, are absolutely part of the CCSSM.

          • http://www.chaosandcritters.com Ella Halligan

            Riiiiight… because they don’t teach to the test. That’s nonsense. If it didn’t determine pedagogy, every district in the country wouldn’t be forcing excellent teachers to sit through “this is how to teach Common Core” seminars. We pulled the kids back out to homeschool after only a couple of years experimenting with the local public school because we saw such a huge shift between how the exact same teacher taught the same concepts two years later… my older daughter received standard education and did well. My younger daughter received CC nonsense and had the predictably dismal results. Amazingly, after only a couple of months of demonstrating the concrete and then requiring her to memorize her tables, she is excelling just as her sister did.

          • porkchop6209

            Good for you guys homeschooling!

          • porkchop6209

            No, Jeff, you blew your own argument right out of the water with your first sentence. If it is indeed Common(same found everywhere) Core (at it’s center or base) State (all locations) Standards (universally taught equally across the board). Sorry cool, you wiped the slate.

          • Jeff

            There is a difference between content, expectations, and pedagogy. The CCSSM outline content and expectations, not pedagogy and methodology. Sorry, cool, but you don’t have an understanding of the standards. If you’d like to read them, they are at corestandards.org.

          • porkchop6209

            Oh, Ms.(Mrs?) Halligan, how I wish I could relate to you the unique similarities, yet stark contrasts, of our three. My oldest(26 today/21st) IQ at 12 of 148, gets math but functions better at mechanics of things, processes and computers, too much like me; middle-IQ at 12 of 172, spatial ability clean off the charts, took SAT’s at 12, almost perfect score, only because Cal and Trig processes hadn’t been taught so he guessed and worked them out, took them at Sylvan on computer- No kidding, finished in 17 minutes, I said “No way!”, walked in their mouths were open. They wanted him at Johns Hopkins, I told them he’s going fishing and hunting instead, better not ever tell him how smart he really is. 3 years welding, 2 years precision machining, 2.5 yrs mechanical engineering, runs his own mid 6 figure welding/fabrication business, owns his own farm, high functioning/highly motivated at 24, daughter is 20, scares me how smart she really is, studying to be a vet, high level mathmatics are a breeze for her, all thru HS she took AP/College level Alg/Calc/Trig with 4.55 GPA, couldn’t score her higher. Brother would call her from ODU to get help on engineering math equations, biggest challenge with each one-motivating them to reach higher, push harder, mount the obstacle. Based on what little, painfully, that I’ve learned about CCSS, I feel if they had been forced to partake of this they, too, would have hated math so bad, no matter how good they are at it, they’d never have made it to the end. That’s just my 2 cents worth.

          • Jeff

            And respectfully, you may need to futher your own understanding of the CCSSM, because the standards to address the need for multiple representations: “using objects, drawings, and equations with a symbol for the unknown number to represent the problem.”

          • http://www.chaosandcritters.com Ella Halligan

            ROFLMAO… I’ve studied the CC enough to know (a) to pull my children away from anything that uses it and (b) that there are better math standards out there (check out McRel.org, for example) which are more clearly articulated and actually require the necessary stepwise progression. McRel even has the CC standards relegated to a separate category than their previous math standards because there is such a gulf between the two.

            But hey, typical liberal, “You don’t agree with me, therefore you must not understand” BS. Keep parroting that if it makes you feel better about yourself.

          • Jeff

            I’m not sure where your attitude is coming from, you said that the CCSS don’t include CPA, and I showed you that it is specifically noted that children use objects, pictures, and equations. If you think that there are better standards, that’s great and I encourage anything that promotes higher achievement.

          • http://www.chaosandcritters.com Ella Halligan

            Try reading. I stated that they didn’t include them in a logical manner that progresses appropriately from concrete to abstract. Rather, it just lumps them all in together without providing any type of logical framework or appreciation of how children’s minds develop.

            I’m not surprised that you can’t figure out where my “attitude” is coming from if you can’t grasp that simple concept.

          • Jeff

            That gets back to my point about the standards being standards, not an actual prescription of pedagogy. I would argue that districts, with specific instruction to have students be able to perform all three of those, would be able to incorporate appropriate pedagogy and research based materials and professional development into their classrooms.

          • http://www.chaosandcritters.com Ella Halligan

            McRel has been around for YEARS and yet they decided to create CC… Massachusetts had excellent state standards and yet they decided to create CC… why create something ludicrous from the ground up when excellent standards have existed for years? Because honestly, the lousy standards of the CC is the LEAST of its problems.

          • Jeff

            Fair enough. The CCSS were in part modeled after the MA Curriculum frameworks, and although adopting states were able to add up to 15% to the base CCSS, MA chose to add about 4%. It seems that were the CCSS so wildly deficient that MA would have needed to add the maximum amount allowable. Is that a fair statement?

          • Jeff

            And not that it matters for this discussion, but I am not liberal. I may not agree with every single conservative or GOP viewpoint, but I am much more right of center than your assumption.

          • porkchop6209

            BINGO! You nailed it right there, Ms. Halligan.

          • schveiguy

            For 7 + 7? Kids better things to do with their time.

          • porkchop6209

            I would tend to think that most physicians, psychologists, and child development specialists would argue that, based on empirical data, most 8-10 year old children’s brains simply aren’t developed that much yet, but I’m open to evidence showing otherwise.

          • Carolyn#OYSD

            “Memorization is not effective for 90% of students, it is much lower, in the neighborhood of 25%.”

            Anyone buying this?

          • AMSilver

            http://udini.proquest.com/view/effect-of-memorization-of-the-goid:250911430/ Here’s one study, at least, that shows students who memorized their multiplication tables performed better than students with calculators. If only 25% of students could effectively memorize, then that should be pretty much impossible.

          • http://www.chaosandcritters.com Ella Halligan

            Nope.

          • schveiguy

            No, not buying it.

            This is akin to reading. If you have to sound out the words, you will not get very far. This math problem is the equivalent of asking a kid who is proficient in reading to specify why the word “cat” is spelled c-a-t.

            To say that “memorization doesn’t work for 75% of kids” is patently false. I’d say in average full-mental-capacity kids, the number is higher than 90%.

            But here is the funny thing, with the common core method you STILL have to memorize that 4 + 3 is 7. So saying memorization doesn’t work is pretty much a non-argument.

            That being said, the method is not bad, it’s just, in my opinion, too complex for such a simple problem. Like you, I think it’s ok to teach this in the case of a student who is struggling, but not as a final method, and not as the common core for all students. Especially in 4th grade.

          • porkchop6209

            First off, to state the obvious, we do not have any source study, with quantitative results, independently obtained, to estimate ANY percentage numbers for anything. I hate statistics most times, not that it matters, but here’s why. Not dependent on rigidly controlled standards, most “statistics” tend to be a lie, at worst, or an inefficient snapshot of a microcosm “at the moment”, at best. For example: random newspaper prints an “opinion” poll stating 75% of Americans support issue X, 20% oppose, 5% couldn’t figure out the question. Dig in the small print though, you find that only 214 people were asked. Well, to start with, that’s not even a decent, respectable number of people that filter through an average mall or WalMart in a day, so how in the world could it be representative of a “majority of Americans”, which is the talking point it becomes once it get hijacked into becoming the issue of the week for every hack and newscast in the world. And what of the 20%? Maybe they didn’t fully understand the issue so they declined to take a “suggested” stance, AKA how the question is worded to get the desired answered? How about the 5%? Maybe it was the “Deaf Walker’s Club” that couldn’t hear the question anyway.
            Statistics are constantly manipulated depending upon who has a dog in the fight, where the money trail leads, what the gov’t. wants you to believe, etc, etc, etc. I think all of you folks are quite intelligent enough to figure out for yourselves the important issues and what is best for YOUR families and children. Now we have a provable crux of an issue, the gov’t., the schools, the liberal progressive movement-DOES NOT believe parents are the best deciders of their kids lives and futures. They don’t mind if we produce them, they certainly enjoy the money we produce to support them(taxes and all), but they will be damned if we are going to choose what is best for them. And they cannot abide it when we go toe to toe with them in defiance….ever! They really have decided that the state is a better Judge of the kid’s welfare, they want the decision making power, they don’t want the attendant responsibility that goes with it. This has to stop and soon. Sometimes, in the case of blatant child abuse, they need to intervene, but most times, like your overly nosey neighbor, they need to throttle back and remember that they are the servants, not the masters. They hate this, it is obvious. My gut feeling in CCSS is that it more amounts to that propaganda machine to manipulate thought control than a more useful math solution to genuinely help kids. Do I have a better solution? No, even if I did, would it matter or lead to change? Not likely. One thing about entrenchments, learned from WW1, they tend to be heavily defended, protected positions from which one launches an attack and then retreats to. And they are entrenched.
            So, what of Jeff and his arguments for CCSS? Let’s give him the cautious benefit of the doubt that he is at least moderately conservative and truly wants what is best to help children learn better for their future, whatever that may encompass; taken into context however, let us believe that he might also be stuck in a system he wishes he could change, yet is powerless to do so, but maybe, just maybe, if by teaching one kid at a time, he can be that engine for better change to restore this Nation alongside so many others. He may, indeed, be trapped behind enemy lines. One thing that draws the greatest disdain from me, as I believe most all of you, too, feel; that is for a childless child “expert”, overly educated, under experienced and way too opinionated, to lecture me, or any other parent, especially of multiple kids, about how best to raise a child, deal with a child, understand a child, help a child or any other of their insane blather of which they know not, I swear to God Almighty Himself it may just push that button that makes me puke on them. Until you’ve lost sleep for night upon night, walked that floor praying the fever breaks before damage or death wins, nursed them through broken hearts, torn souls, inexplicable deaths of friends, rages of uncertainty, or watched them walk out that door for points unknown, in harm’s way not certain you will ever see them alive again; until you find out what it is like to have life rip your heart out, shred it into a million pieces, stomp it into the dirt, put it back together and shake it off-hand it back to you and whisper “I’ll be back tomorrow to do it again”, then all your education, all your training, all your expertise amounts to the real definition of those little letters “they” tack onto the end of your degree-BS,MS PHD! Bull$#!T, More $#!t, Piled Higher & Deeper.

          • Johnny Blade

            since every word you used is the result of memorization, perhaps you would be willing to source your 25% claim

          • porkchop6209

            Please see my above post

          • JollyTexan

            To Jeff and Carolyn: Not trying to argue; just wondering – where are you two getting your facts about the percentage of students capable of memorization? I haven’t researched it but would think it would be higher than 25%. One of my children has Down syndrome, and while it might take him longer than most kids, he is perfectly capable of memorizing.

          • Carolyn#OYSD

            Mine was admittedly a guesstimate given the general populace. People function mathematically today by having to use memorization. From my 7th grader to my 79 year old dad. Jeff’s statistic just isn’t logically possible.

          • Jeff

            The problem with that is that relying ONLY on memorization, when the brain doesn’t have anything to relate it to, is not an effective tool. For example, in high school when we had to learn a second language, simply memorizing conjugations to a verb isn’t enough. Students need to practice vocabulary in a real word conversation in order to promote better retention. There are countless people who say “I took French in HS and don’t remember anything”. Why is that? It’s because they didn’t actually experience the language, but were told to simply memorize verbs for a quiz. When we learn only by remembering, ultimately we will forget.

          • Jeff

            It’s actually closer to a third (about 31%). Not only is that logically possible, it’s proven research.

          • porkchop6209

            Oh really? Well then, bounce back up about four or five posts from here and carefully, and I wish you to dwell upon it, read what I posited. You chew on that for a couple of minutes, or days. And to your above post-let ’em buy a copy of Rosetta Stone, cause I got news for ya sport, statistically speaking- one out of one doesn’t get out of this deal alive, and Jesus Christ or Satan Himself-you don’t choose one, you’ve automatically chosen the other. How’s that for a stat?

          • porkchop6209

            Please see my above post. Three doors up, I think.

          • Jeff

            It’s not quite as simple as a pure number, it is linked to numerous other factors, including how topics are introduced, how concepts are scaffolded, etc. However, research suggests that beginning with memorization of abstract notation and processes is highly ineffective and must first be grounded in the building of the concept, ultimately leading to better retention and memorization. It’s a bit like any pnemonic device, linking something that you wish to retain to a real world experience or association, which in this case would be having students create a mathematical situation with concretes before memorization of the abstract.

          • Carolyn#OYSD

            And at least I owned it. 😉

          • porkchop6209

            Please see my above post, and God Bless you. Only special people get special children. Thank you for your service, too. We don’t take it for granted.

          • porkchop6209

            While I agree with your hypotheses, not necessarily your aggregate numbers, the crux of the issue, as far as what I have read or seen about Common Core, is that a right answer doesn’t really matter, as long as they show up for the process, they pass. To me, that’s a disaster in the making, not to mention how it will reconcile with SOL’s. Real life? Then it’s a crap shoot. Also, as Carolyn points out, this is fourth grade, not Jr. High School. The thing is, as in the K.I.S.S. principle, a simplified( the most simplified) processes to get from A to C is usually best and most effective, don’t muddy the waters by over complicating it.

          • Jeff

            A correct answer is always the goal. “attending to precision” is one of the mathematical practices in CC, and while many people, here and elsewhere have been yelling “they don’t memorize times tables!!!” (which is not really correct, they are multiplication tables. Correct math vocab matters), the CCSSM clearly state in third grade that students will “know from memory all products of all one digit numbers”, another example of requiring students to know what is correct. The absolute simplest way to describe the CCSSM is a balance procedural fluency AND conceptual understanding. If people want to disagree with the methods used to develop either or both of things, that’s fantastic and an absolutely valid and important debate. However, the standards do not explicitly describe one method or another. On the contrary, they do require that students are able to solve a problem in more than one way. It is up to districts to decide HOW they want to teach students that conceptual understanding and procedural fluency. If someone disagrees with the use of number bonds to build the concept of part-part-whole, fact families, etc, that’s fine, but they need to talk to their local school district about why they’ve chosen to incorporate that strategy into their instruction and not blame it on the CCSS.

          • Donya Burnitt Singletary

            You have it in a nutshell, they are dumbing down our kids.

          • Jay Stevens

            ” 90% of kids are capable of handling straight up memorization.”

            I disagree with you. I think the percentage is much higher. I went to a 4 room (1st & 2nd, 3rd & 4th, 5th & 6th grade classrooms, a gym that doubled as a cafeteria, and a few offices for the teachers) rural grade school in the ’50’s. Most of the students were farmer’s kids. We were expected to memorize our multiplication and division tables. And somehow, we all did.

          • http://www.chaosandcritters.com Ella Halligan

            Agreed. It may take some children more repetition to manage the memorization but that doesn’t mean that memorization is ineffective. Yes, show them WHY it works when they are in preschool and kindergarten… I honestly believe it is those children who don’t receive the basic at home education of counting things around the house and having to divide and sort basic household items who find the memorization more difficult… but then there comes a time when you have to just buckle down and memorize it. Chances are that the farmer’s kids, having to manage the daily chores (we also living in a rural, farming environment) simply had more day to day familiarity with concrete mathematics.

          • Maxwell

            You favor memorization for teaching? That is the worse way to teach someone. I can memorize all the Shakespeare, psychological, scientific, and philosophical theories I want, doesn’t mean I’m smart. Anyone can spout off facts, but it takes true intelligence to understand and apply them.

          • porkchop6209

            Amen to that sister! Grocery shopping and household budgets will teach it faster than any book. I threw out a long post about 8-9 posts up. I hope you will back up and read it.

          • porkchop6209

            And thrived, I bet, despite libprogs stereotypes(today at least) that you all were “dumb, stupid, redneck hacks that didn’t have the sense of a horse’s azz.” Because I was, and am, too, and way proud of it. And whenever SHTF, we can take care of our own, hunt, fish, grow, filter-LIVE! And fight-cause it’s going to get bad, so all that math will come in handy, how many seeds did I plant, How many fish did I catch, How many rounds are left in this mag, How many mags do I have left. How much fuel is in the gen. That sort of idiotic stuff

          • Maxwell

            I didn’t see anything up there that said this is the standard that all students must use. Like I stated below, I think they’re trying to say “Hey, if you’re having trouble, try it this way instead.”

          • Carolyn#OYSD

            That is not correct. The teachers are requiring students to use the methods of problem solving they are laying out. They CAN’T just say 7+7=14 because it doesn’t show their work (which in my kids’ case they have memorized). They are also required to show HOW they attained the correct answer via the prescribed methods.

          • Maxwell

            Maybe for this lesson’s homework, since this lesson probably discussed the rule, but it doesn’t mean students will have to use it down the road in later lessons.

          • theferrisoneofall

            Yes, but the rest of us shouldn’t be penalized and forced to the dumbed down math for the sake of those that don’t get it! Great find a way that works for you, but my kids who are exceptional at math shouldn’t be forced to show their “work” by drawing a bunch of circles with hash marks in them to show that 18X5=90! Common Core is making everyone weak so that no one feels bad that they aren’t competent in a particular area! Level the playing field even if it sinks us!!

          • Oneinformedvoter

            I would not give the you 22.01, but if I had two quarters and a penny I could give you the twenty plus that so you wouldn’t have to fool with making change with the coins.

          • porkchop6209

            Max, no one is faulting you if you struggle at math, people do and I applaud you for seeking alternative ways to problem solve, when many others just give up and get high. I always excelled at math and loved history, sucked at Gov’t. in high school, now, oddly, it’s my most passionate subject. My algebra teacher mortally hated the subject in school, yet her brain functioned to “get it”, so she teaches it. Our oldest son went to a very prestigious, tech savvy high school with aeronautics, technology, Biology and IB programs. He is good at math, but under his algebra teacher he was just stuck spinning his wheels. With her it just didn’t click for him. Then she had to be out for a while and a gentleman that taught when I was in school came to sub for her. With Dave, Matt clicked and took off. When his regular teacher came back, he stalled. Technique has a lot to do with it, yet the math itself was the same. What was so baffling about it was that Calculus and Trig were a breeze for him. Go figure! All of us have certain talents and skills we naturally excel at, other things we have to push ourselves at to make it work. Such is life, but what I find disheartening is the readiness with which we all tend to compromise, deflect, give up, find something easier-just because, myself included. We’ve had it too easy in this country, it may ruin us yet. However, always remember that the greatest waste is not money, energy, resources, time or any tangible item; the greatest waste is potential-what we could be, rather than that which we settle for. Hang in there cool!

          • Ranba_Ral

            “If you gave me 22.01 on your 11.51 order, I will assume you gave me too much money.”

            How about assuming if they’re giving you less than $20 difference in extra money (or less than double if it’s less than $20), PARTICULARLY if they’re handing you coins too, that you assume they’re doing it for the reason Michelle states? Given that the register figures out the change and spits it out on a screen for you, that should be pretty simple.

          • porkchop6209

            Not necessarily, I’ve got a post way back, I think a reply to Michelle, that details an experience my son and I had over this very thing. If you haven’t read it, you are certainly welcome to. It was….troubling.

          • smBklyn

            So you’ve argued that people should be able to learn math in different ways and then make comments to demean Maxwell’s way. You should be ashamed of your behavior. I hope you aren’t a school teacher. People who speak to others the way you do, is the problem.

          • Michelle ✓classified

            No clue what you’re talking about other than you obviously felt the need to write something just for the sake of writing something. I didn’t demean Maxwell and actually, he and I had a very civil discussion and were very polite to each other. I’m not sure why you felt the need to add negativity other than you needed some attention. Have a good day Sonja.

          • porkchop6209

            See above post to her post. You know this gal? Conversed before? She seems tense, frustrated. Maybe a spa day?

          • porkchop6209

            Yes, seriously, and Michelle doesn’t need me to defend her, yet I feel the need. I’ve conversed with her and followed her posts for a short while now, I’ve never seen her blatantly disparage anyone, save for stupid political policies. I’ve found her to be articulate, engaging, insightful and having an excellent grasp of language and prose, and a keen understanding of current issues. Maybe you misinterpreted? Jumped to a conclusion? Remember-Jumping to conclusions is our favorite Olympic sport.

          • smBklyn

            Sorry Pork chop, she may have spoke wonderfully on all those other occasions. However, in this case she did not. It wasn’t me misinterpreting or jumping to conclusions; it was me reading her comments. They were not kind or necessary.

          • porkchop6209

            OK, maybe I missed the post you are referring to. If so, my apologies. What did she say?

          • Badd Karma

            $4.02

          • Guest

            I know the multiplication tables through 12 times twelve, and how to add single line numbers and how to carry.

          • Elle6245

            I’m guessing that sales tax really messes you up …

          • porkchop6209

            Those pesky fractional percentages screw up everybody’s day. And what’s with the .99cents on everything, except Wally World, where it’s .97. Round it to 0.00, just for simplification, especially on a gallon of gas.

          • Jay Stevens

            No. You will have about $2.80 left over. Sales tax.

          • http://www.chaosandcritters.com Ella Halligan

            If you would give her back the $2.01, too, you aren’t demonstrating any critical thinking skills (which is even worse than having difficulties with math). I grew up watching my mother give out the amount of money needed to not have to deal with unnecessary change in her pocketbook and I have always done the same. It’s not difficult to figure out. Up until about 10 years ago, I never had a problem with any cashier understanding WHY I gave them the amount that I had given them… and even now, as long as I am with a cashier at least 40 or older there are no problems. It’s just the kids who came after that who seem to not only not have math skills… but to not have critical thinking skills, either.

          • porkchop6209

            And if we could just get everything for free, we could do away with this silly money changer thingy. Oh God! I’ve been infected! The transformation has begun! Please, please, don’t let me turn, be merciful, put one in my brain, please!

          • Oneinformedvoter

            Much quicker to add 6 to 8 to get 14, add each .99 rounded up to 1.00 getting $16, then subtract 2 cents to get the exact figure of $15.98. Of course I went to school 100 years ago when we memorized all single digit addition and multiplication. We learned the relationship of numbers when we learned addends in addition and factors in multiplication. This made long division much easier. About middle school age we learned the magic of 9.

          • porkchop6209

            Please, stop it with the logic! You’re going to hurt somebody’s brain…………

          • porkchop6209

            This is where you are wrong Maxwell, your method might work for you only as long as you arrive at the correct answer. Courtesy and feelings have absolutely nothing to do with it. Math is black and white, either it is right, or it is wrong, period. There’s no grey, fuzzy, compromising area that can be fudged one way or other and still get the point across like English, communications, marketing, etc. Computers demand it being correct, fixing cars and trucks and equipment and other technical pieces of machinery demand it, carpentry and home building demand it, physics demands it, being a physician demands it, engineering demands it. There’s no grey area, lives depend on it being right. That’s why math is so important and why our nation sucks at it and is falling behind badly. China, India, Germany, Russia, other countries drill it constantly, consistently into their students, and they are kicking our asses. Get it now, my friend?

          • Frogmouth

            It has less to do with basic math skills and more to do with the fact that they stand there all day with people bitching, asking stupid questions and generally being assholes. The only way to survive such mind-numbing abuse is to shut don your brain BEFORE dealing with the public and run on auto-pilot.
            Plus, add to this the fact that if you handle money transactions for any length of time one of the first lessons you learn is that the more complex or distracting a transaction becomes, the more likely it is that the person is trying to get you to make a mistake in their favor. In layman’s terms, they’re trying to cheat you.
            So…give them the $20, take the change and get on with your day.

          • BigDaddyDK

            Um, simply inputting the values into the computer returns the amount owed back. There is really not much need for a cashier to even do the math any longer. What I’ve noticed more is that they cannot count back my change properly. In fact, they just hand me a receipt and the change and make no effort to ensure that it’s right aside from the initial count out of the till.

          • Jeff

            so mindless button pushing is acceptable, but yet the CCSS are “dumbed down”?

          • BigDaddyDK

            I’m not saying that there’s no need for the math skills. There is. In fact, it’s more essential now than it’s ever been with the need to compete in a more complex working world than we grew up with. It’s more a matter of the example of a cashier needing to do the math in his/her head is not relevant. I’m not totally convinced one way or the other on the Common Core with respect to this issue. I’ve seen kids learn math many different ways and ultimately arrive at the ability to do math. I think CC has its issues, but this I don’t think is at the top of the list. Seems the concern here is more about the terminology than the actual problem.

          • porkchop6209

            Just wait until they replace you with a machine.

          • porkchop6209

            Ditto, seen them. Self serve kiosks are rapidly replacing warm blooded folk.

          • Gunny2862

            Counting back change is an incredibly basic function in retail. If you can’t do it, you won’t be working one of my registers.

          • bfplncc

            I had a similar instance just the other day. Bought some doggie do-do bags for $12.72. Gave the young cashier a $20 bill and 3 quarters (that’s 6x$.10, + 1x$.10, + $.05 = $.75; for you CC dolts). First, she incorrectly put the info into her computerized cash register; saying that I was due $7.21 change ???. I told her that was not correct; she called over the manager who instructed the cashier to give me the correct change and they would straighten the register out after I left. This is where the fun started; A frightened look came across her face. She couldn’t figure out the change in her head; the manager proceeds to pull out her cell phone and starts to use the calculator function; I said the change is $8.00 plus three pennies. Sad but true.

          • SpencerChaffin

            I do quite the same at the cash register. I will hand the money to the cashier and tell them how much to give me back. Normally they will tell me they can not , that they will have to give me what the cash register display shows.

          • nc ✓s & balances

            Too funny! But too true. Counting change back should not be all that difficult, but so many cashiers these days can’t do it.

          • porkchop6209

            That should have “won” you three or four, or 3.99 hours behind the counter to school the manager and server on old school “how it’s done!”

          • John Dalzell

            I understand your passion and your example is completely correct. I’m almost 59 and if it wasn’t for a calculator (or some sort of computer) – I would be confused as well (sad to say).

          • porkchop6209

            I swear to God, I’m glad you brought that up. I think I’ve related to you that my son has a welding business, was with him in a BK once, now he is way past smart, genius even, but mostly humble, our order was $15.68. He gave the girl $20.68, she only punched $20.00 into the register and inquired as to the purpose of the .68 cents, he said “So you can just give me a five dollar bill back.” I swear, she argued with us for several minutes, about how that was going to mess up her register and how wrong it was for us to try to rip her off and take advantage of BK. On and on, no matter how we tried to rationalize it to her, she wouldn’t budge. We even took the $4.32 she forced us to take as change, laid it on the counter and slowly added the .68 cents to show her it added up to FIVE DOLLARS. Nope, she wasn’t going there. Damnedest thing I ever saw, so is it any wonder?

          • Michelle ✓classified

            It’s really so pathetic. I do that all the time, give the change in coins so I don’t have four ones and more coins, wanting a $5 back, it throws them into a world of confusion. Really? Is this how stupid we’ve become?

          • porkchop6209

            No sugar, it’s not how stupid we’ve become; it’s how ignorant they forced us to be for self effacing reasons, politics, money, power, etcetera. Along with an underlying, silent “wink and a nod” of “Join us or suffer the consequences”. That sucks, they insist on tolerance(mundane compliance) yet refuse to fight fair themselves.

          • Jarhead68

            Why? There is no “why?”…it just IS. It always will be. They don’t need to know “why” 7 + 7 = 14. The education system in the US has been destroyed by progressivism. Teaching techniques need to be restored to the way they were in the 50’s & 60’s before they invented “new math.” That’s when it all started going downhill. Readin’, ‘ritin’, and ‘rithmatic are the building blocks of intelligence and we are doing the young people of America a grave disservice, to the benefit of unions and statists.

          • disqus_v3SHzvCspj

            Because two touchdowns is 14 points (counting pats).

          • porkchop6209

            Unless there is a conversion, then it’s 2 up, but under O’man, we have to make it fair, cause, well, you didn’t really earn those points, so you have to share. Ok, the score is 13-13, so we have to add them together, then divide by two, and the winner is…….Hey, wait, who moved the points around? It’s still 13-13.

          • Kay Headley

            New math. UGH. In 1963 I was “taught” New Math. Was told it would help me understand math better. Totally ruined my math skills for the rest of my life. Common core is even worse.

          • Jay Stevens

            I was lucky, by the time I was exposed to new math, I was in high school studying algebra. So it really did not apply.

          • porkchop6209

            Wait, who threw away the old math? What a waste, I could have used that!

          • Jeff

            I disagree. Any concept, mathematical or otherwise, is really and truly learned only when someone is able to explain why something is the way it is. Simple memorization, not only ineffective for a majority of students, is not a demonstration of a learned concept.

          • porkchop6209

            Ok then, explain stupidity for us.

          • Betsy Singh-Anand

            I went to kindergarten in 1969. Through 3rd grade our district taught “old” math. No problem. In 4th grade, a switch to “new” math was made. It was a disaster. Scores plummeted. In 5th grade, it was back to old math. For a number of students – myself included – it was like losing a year of math study. I did not fully catch up until adulthood. Just because some new way exists doesn’t mean it is superior.

            I have taken a mid-life detour into public education as a part time job. I hesitate to get into detail on a public forum, so let’s just leave it at saying that I have grave concerns for the future of many young lives. The number of students who have an IEP (what we used to call special ed) is fully one third of every grade in our building. The bright students are reading and doing math at grade level. Precious few are above grade level. Worse still is the attitude toward education in general.

            From what I have heard and read about common core, it is just more government intrusion that is going to dumb things down even more. Math skills will be 2 years behind international programs. The kids still won’t see any foreign language until high school *if* they choose to take it. In my view, that is criminal. Classical languages are well and truly dead in public schools. It’s a mess. Very sad.

          • porkchop6209

            Please go to http://www.godanriver.com, our local newspaper’s site, read the lead article for Sunday the 19th.

          • porkchop6209

            Semper Fi!

          • AMSilver

            It’s fine if all you want your students to do with math is to figure out change at the gas station. When you get to higher level math, however, the basics really need to be simple, and already drilled into your memory. If you’ve got a complex math problem – and then you’ve got to break it up into all these sub-problems in order to do the basic math that you need to solve the larger calculus level problem…. I think by making it more complex, kids aren’t going to want to get into higher level math.
            Also, the directions aren’t simply vague – they’re gibberish. That’s not written in any sort of grammatically correct English. I’m sitting here (completely understanding the method they’re wanting the student to use, by the way) and trying to figure out how on earth you could rephrase that in English to make it a logical sentence, and the way it’s parsed really is nonsense. I think ‘Use number bonds to help you skip-count *from* seven by making ten *and then* adding to the ones’ is what they actually meant to say. Really, the sentence they wrote makes me think whoever did that worksheet does not have a proper grasp of the language.

          • driech

            Well said!

          • Maxwell

            I do it in algebra. It hasn’t hurt me yet, I just take longer to problems than my classmates.

          • AMSilver

            Yes, and that’s algebra. Algebra problems are fairly simple, and short. The fact that it takes you longer to do problems isn’t an issue in algebra, but once you get to calculus? Or even higher? Those are complicated problems at that level, with a large number of steps to solve a problem, even when using stream-lined steps. If you take those stream-lined yet long problems and make them even longer, it’s going to discourage students from pursuing higher level math.

          • Maxwell

            Two things. 1st. if someone has to use the above example to solve arithmetic, they probably won’t have any inherent interest in pursuing higher level math. Case & point, me. I just want to get my math gen-eds, and move to learning things that are practical for my degree.

            2nd. if someone truly wants to pursue higher math, they will.

          • AMSilver

            I will agree with your first point. Not all people are inclined to math, and won’t pursue it even if they can do well.

            I do have to disagree with your second point. If a person who could do well at math is taught in such a way that it is convoluted, confusing, and unenjoyable, then they won’t develop the desire to pursue higher math. If that same person is taught in a way that they are able to feel like they have a mastery of the subject, that can help them form the desire to learn more. You have business men reporting that there is a shortage of people who have mastered higher level maths for careers in engineering, etc. Teaching math in a way that discourages people from pursuing higher math is not a good thing.

          • Maxwell

            Idk, I think if a person really enjoys math, they would be fascinated about different ways to solve mathematical problems. Just my opinion.

          • porkchop6209

            Pi are not square, Pi are round. Cornbread are square.

          • AMSilver

            Pi are only round until it’s triangles. Then it’s got ice cream on top.

          • porkchop6209

            Oh, snap! Winner! Take the day off with pay and benefits, on me! Collect the rubber Chips Ahoy on the way out of the door.

          • porkchop6209

            One only needs read a few text messages or Facebook posts to see why. Proper syntax is always called for. And Prezzy O’Man! wants these kids programming computers? Geez-after the Oct 1 roll out, didn’t he get it?

          • Pat Clarke

            Why not break BOTH 7’s down into ONES, and let the little kiddies count their fingers and toes?

            This. is. AWFUL.

          • porkchop6209

            Toes don’t count, which means….OMG! These kids have seven fingers, that is horrible.

          • DeeDee

            Seven? The number seven needs to be broken down into smaller numbers? Seriously?

          • Ranba_Ral

            These roundabout methods are fine when you’re dealing with kids not getting it the normal way. However, they’re often so roundabout in getting to the answer as to be over-complex for the majority who just get the 7+7 = 14, without going through the whole 7+?=10, ?=3, so subtract 3 from one of the 7’s to make the other 7 10, so you have 4 left over of the other 7, so 10+4 = 14.

            Look up-thread for my example on how they’re teaching division. They guess at the answer to every key step of the method presented to the kids, and they don’t teach multiplication tables anymore so the kids don’t even have a basis on which to ground the initial guess. The result is the kids are taking 10-20x as long to solve the problem.

            Sure, have those methods for kids having trouble with the more
            traditional method, but don’t make the logic-spiral and “pull guesses out of your butt” methods the standard
            go-to.

            ESPECIALLY since this standard is touted as getting kids ready for the jobs of tomorrow, like engineering and software development.

          • Bathing Suit Area

            All we’ve seen is one question on one page. Do we know that they’re not explaining the why behind the method, or are we just jumping to that conclusion?

          • Michelle ✓classified

            What part of this did you not understand? “I fail to see that here.” I explain that I don’t see the point, which would be very different from me “jumping to conclusions” otherwise my wording would have been “That isn’t here.”

            Seriously, your Devil’s Advocate routine is growing mighty boring. I can’t even imagine how exhausting it must be being you. I’m to the point of just ignoring you and not evening bothering to read your comments.

          • mikeinmn

            The proof for 1+1=2 is far beyond what a 1st grader needs to know. They just need to know that it is and always will be. I have yet to get a good answer from a teacher as to why they can’t just use the tables for this basic-level stuff. They don’t need a whole socio-politcal story behind the fact that if Johnny has one apple and Billy give him another, he now has two.

          • Human

            It’s all just confusin man! “Get the ball Danny”

          • chundo

            The “ones” is talking about place value, not the numeral one. For 10 + 4, you add the 0 in the “ones” position to the “4” in the ones position.

          • porkchop6209

            Because Michelle, most kids only have 4 fingers and one thumb on each hand. Toes don’t count, can’t make it too strenuous for the little buggers. Seriously, Common Core is really messed up, indoctrination if I’ve ever seen it. I’ve a friend who is an Intake Counselor at a local college, he detailed to me one day how their biggest struggle is when young enrollees try to take the placement skills assessments and fail them miserably. He said the greatest expenditures are allocated to remedial classes just to get the kids up to speed, with many dropping out first, stating an exasperated query of “How are these kids even graduating high school?” and “They’ll never make it through college!”

          • HoustnGirl

            I agree. I thought the same thing. But as parents or family trying to help children with their work, how do we explain to them what has never been taught to us? Children (especially young ones like this younger sister) do not always remember what was explained earlier. SO you are all screwed.

          • Eric Denney

            My 24yo daughter has been a teacher’s assistant for 4 years, as she completed her BA degree and is about to get her teaching credentials. She’s been telling me for the last year about Common Core and how horrible it is. The kids DON’T get it much of the time, because the directions are terrible. And as we’ve seen from other common core examples, there is often times a very specific agenda embedded in the questions (not so much with the math problems, but in the other subjects). Common Core is a huge problem.

          • Man From AUNTIE

            Same here. Do I like where C.C. is come from and that it seems to be cookie cutterish? Not in the least, I believe in state and local control.
            Could it be made up controversy? It could be, but at the same time, the instructions are really hitting the “huh?” factor.

          • Michael Rice

            No. The point is common core is full of crap like this. 7 plus 7 is 14. That is it, period.

          • Evelyn Brady

            I have one study hall and guess what, it is amazing the “stuff” these kids have to do. Often the directions make no sense, and when you explain what is happening they can not see it. I don’t believe the terminology is covered as you may think, otherwise it would not need readdressed before they can begin it. Funny, sometimes all they need to do is draw a picture but still cannot do it or explain it in words. Why then is it called math class!? Just because I have knowledge of something does not mean I know how it works. I understand the above problem posted and used this method to teach my own kids but not the confusing directions.

          • LieutenantSword

            That’s bullshit. The values of numbers don’t change, even over the course of 30 years. It’s amazing that we were leading the world in education 30 years ago, and now we’re scraping the bottom. This kind of shit is the reason! Leave it to fucking Libs to come along and completely fuck up something that isn’t even broken.

          • Jenn

            It really isn’t a small thing to lose good terminology and, in this case, instructions.

            I was just telling my husband how no one knows terminology anymore. My example was how no teenager knows what a “wind chill factor” is, as all the weather apps use “real feel” or “feels like”…they dumb us down in so many small ways. I also hate how Google Chrome will ask a question such as, “Do you want this page translated?” and they give me the option of “nope”…ugh!

          • smBklyn

            It is horrible because they should have grandfathered the existing students with the traditional method and begin common core with first graders. Now you have students in fourth and fifth grade who are being introduced to math concepts that are an extension of what they would have learned in previous grades of common core. Which of course they haven’t learned. Now in years to come you won’t even h
            ave an accurate account of the benefits of common core vs. previous standards. COMMON CORE IS A MESS!

          • http://steamcommunity.com/id/pwag42 Swagner

            I object to investing this kind of money into ensuring that children can’t get help with their homework from their parents. I haven’t met anyone who made it out of elementary school who doesn’t know basic arithmetic, so the “old” system (i.e. the one that didn’t use the phrases “number bonds” or “skip-counting” along with a diagram (which, if necessary, only reinforces how worthless the directions and nomenclature are) to describe 7+7) obviously wasn’t all that bad. It got the same job done, with fewer frustrated parents in the process.

          • Ranba_Ral

            The terms are most definitely covered earlier, However the sense of the logic depends on what aspect you’re dealing with. My sister currently long-term substitute teaches grade school. The way common core in all the schools she’s been in does math is nuts.

            For example, third grade division:
            You guess how many times the divisor goes into the dividend. You write that down, then you use a visual aid (a lot of the ones she showed me look like a nautilus shell of numbers) to figure out what your guess times the divisor is. If that is less than the dividend, subtract the result from the divisor, then you guess how many times the divisor goes into the that. Rinse repeat until your result is less than the dividend. Then you add all your guesses together to get your answer, and the leftover is your remainder. It works, but it’s circuitous as hell.

            Bear in mind the kids aren’t taught the times tables in this system. It’s all visual aids and varieties of circuitous by-twos or by-tens methods, so they don’t have any grounding on which to base their initial guesses outside of multiplying everything by 2 or 10. The usual result is kids are taking an entire sheet of paper to solve a problem that takes 2-3 lines using the old by-10’s long division method. She was blowing minds showing them “long division” when she was checking their work one time (the teacher hadn’t provided her with answer keys). They got that method pretty quick and wanted to do it, but the grading in the common core assessments she’s had to use isn’t based solely on the correct answer, it’s mostly based on showing the common core approved methodology.

          • PokeyBug

            Using skip counting is a tried-and-true method of teaching multiplication. I homeschool, and I encourage counting with fingers, too. :)

          • Jay Stevens

            I think you are approaching the same goal from the other end.

            Question: Do you skipcount everything or just enough to make sure they have the idea, then move on to rote memorization?

          • PaulMiddaugh

            The sentence is not structured correctly. It should have been written like this:
            …skip count-by-sevens…
            There are not such devices called “skip-counting”. There is count-by-numbers (7, 10, 2, etc)

        • Michael Rice

          Or we could just say add 7 plus 7 and be done with it.

        • Wootpool the Yuge

          Dear lord! You’ll go to bat for any stupid lefty idea wont you?? You are the definition of a troll.

      • Zach Smith

        Or you can simply remember that 7+7=14 or 2×7=14, which works quite well.

        • Man From AUNTIE

          Thru out all of this evening, I have been remembering how I was taught. It was count on the fingers, count up to 7 then count 7 more times, remember it only took 3 fingers to get to ten, how many fingers did you have sticking out after the second 7,? 4? good.

          That is how I started learning my double digit additions.

          • Zach Smith

            Seems like it would be much more useful to have them counting beads or using an abacus to understand the concept. What they really need, though, is to get the addition and multiplication tables learned so they can move beyond counting and on to actual arithmetic.

      • TomJB

        Sure, but I’ll bet it wasn’t FOURTH grade math where you did that.

      • GlockG22shoots40s

        here’s a thought… teach kids to add numbers 1-9 enough and how to carry a 1. It won’t take a week to get through. Now you have to subtract to add? Teach them a times table to AT LEAST 10 when they get that adding thing memorized.

        • Jeff

          You do know that there is no such thing as “carrying”, right? It is regrouping.

          • http://www.chaosandcritters.com Ella Halligan

            Seriously? You are actually going to claim that the time honored concepts of “carrying” (and I’m guessing “borrowing”) do not EXIST because YOU think they should only be called “regrouping”. You must love that whole “climate change” garbage. I suggest you get your nose out of CC long enough to read some Orwell or Huxley to understand that changing the language doesn’t actually change the concepts, it just muddies the waters enough to allow propaganda and imprecise thinking.

          • Jeff

            It was a simplified statement, for sure. However, you have to agree that the term “carrying” doesn’t actually reinforce the concept of place value.

          • Jeff

            I am totally willing to continue the conversation, but I would respectfully ask that we stay away from sarcasm and random references to other issues.

          • Jeff

            If you read through the post you’ll see that I corrected myself and clarified. Of course, you know that mathematically it IS grouping and regrouping, not “carrrying”, much the same way that we don’t “times” something by something else, we multiply. Math vocabulary matters.

          • schveiguy

            Did you know there’s no such thing as centrifugal force? You know, the feeling like you are being pushed to the outside of a car when you go around a turn?

            But you are wrong about carrying. It’s a real thing. Because I do it, and I call it carrying. When myself or someone else says “borrowing and carrying,” I understand what it means. Calling it a different name doesn’t mean there’s “no such thing.”

          • Jeff

            I’m not sure if you meant that sarcastically, but it happens that you are correct, in the purest meaning of a “force” as it exists in physics. The definition of a force is something that always exists, like gravity. Centrifugal force is not a true force in that it only exists under certain circumstances. Anyway, you are correct, I should have been more clear when I said that. Borrowing and carrying are certainly part of many mathematical practices. What I really should have said was that what those terms represent is grouping and regrouping, because those are the terms that actually reflect place value, an essential concept for students to grasp, and students should learn them.

          • schveiguy

            Again, the name isn’t important. If we teach the concept the same, and you call it “grouping and regrouping” and I call it “carrying and borrowing,” you really think the grouping and regrouping student is somehow better off? Who cares what the name is?

            And no, I wasn’t being sarcastic, there is no such thing as centrifugal force, it is commonly referred to as a “fictitious force.” It just *feels* like it is there :)

          • Jeff

            This not a big disagreement, I think I would just say that the term “carrying” takes away from the actual understanding of place value, and that students need to understand the concept before using shortcut-type terms. So for example, you may not be “carrying the 1”, it may actually be regrouping the tens. I would argue that students should know whether a digit they are carrying is a one, ten, hundred, etc. That’s all.

          • schveiguy

            I disagree that it takes away, but I see your point that they should understand it’s not a “1” they are carrying. However, in practice, you don’t really have to “know” that in order to get the answer, or even understand the concept. In fact, it’s pretty simple — you need to put the digit for the 10s, 100s, etc. next to the current digit, so you can’t exactly write “14” in that column, because the 1 will get in the way, so you have to put it up above. You are “carrying the digit” to the top of the column so it’s out of the way.

          • Jeff

            Like I said, I think we are not so far apart here. The fundamental disagreement for me is that I am of the opinion that we shouldn’t just be growing “answer getters”, but thinkers, and that we should be tying the conceptual understanding with the process itself. Thanks for the conversation, have a good evening.

          • schveiguy

            I don’t disagree on the goal, just the measurement. Determining whether someone understands the underlying meaning of 7 + 7 is not possible with this mechanism. Case in point, I have extensive math experience through calculus 5 and have never tried to add numbers this way. Yet I fully understand how numbers work, perhaps more than most people. The idea that we should measure the *method* instead of the *answer* in math is just plain wrong.

            Here’s how the problem should be worded IMO:

            Do the following problems, ask a teacher if you need help.

            7 + 7 = _____

            Good night to you too. The debate has been fun.

          • Mead

            That’s how I and hundreds of thousands of other kids learned it over the years, as “carrying”, and it was never unclear.

        • Gunny2862

          I completely agree with you, but this is the problem that occurs when academics feel the need to show off. Because once you reach a certain level you learn that all math functions are accomplished by subtraction. This is a really , really poor execution of pushing that concept down. They don’t need to know it so why complicate the process. Let them add, and memorize multiplication tables at least thru 9×9. I hated doing it, but it is useful.

      • GaylePutt

        Now that I understood…succinct and simple. Common Core is more than math, of course, it’s indoctrination as well.

        http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/11/10/common-core-lessons-blasted-for-sneaking-politics-into-elementary-classrooms/

        I find this appalling.

        • disqus_v3SHzvCspj

          Two issues; one, some kids cannot memorize tables because of LD or ADD; auditory sequential memory deficits. Also calculators are fifty cents each. A lot of these kids will be stuck on 7×8 forever when their peers are in Algebra 1. OTOH Penmanship is also a lost art.

        • Jeff

          FIrst, I agree that that content does not belong in a lesson on possessives. However, that said, that page has nothing to do with the CC. That is from a printed resource, published by Pearson, and was available long before the CCSS. For ELA, the CCSS simply state that children will “understand and use possessives”. That is it, period. There are no lessons, no suggested resources, no “Common Core Worksheets”. It is the DISTRICT that chooses the resources to use to teach concepts, and it is the DISTRICT that chose this resource. A step further, it is the AUTHOR of that resource who chose to include those examples, and the publisher who allowed it. It was not created, published, or endorsed by anyone other than the author and publisher.

          • GaylePutt

            Thank you Jeff. I didn’t understand that. Then I guess the blame falls on the school district that chooses what propaganda they teach.

          • Jeff

            That’s absolutely true. Like I said, I completely agree that those examples have no place in our classrooms. My point was simply that the examples, resources, etc, that are used are not mandated, dictated, or even suggested by “the CCSS”, but rather the district / school / teacher. For example, in grade 3, one of the math standards states “fluently add and subtract within 1000”, and that’s it. However, if the school uses a book or worksheet that says “joe has $800 and Bill has $200, how much do we need to take from joe to make it fair?”, then that problem was crafted by an author and published by a company as a way to practice + / – within 1000, but as you can see from the quoted standard that it is in no way coming from the standard itself. But of course, if someone saw that problem somewhere, then there would be a wave of outrage blaming it on the CCSS. I’m just trying to help separate what the actual standards are versus resources that are questionable. :)

      • disqus_v3SHzvCspj

        omg

      • Pat Clarke

        Really?

      • Alan

        An unnecessarily hard way to do it. No wonder kids hate math!

      • elixelx

        Yes three steps 7+7>>7+3=10 and 4, 10+4=
        Three steps to do what any six year old could do in one counting on his fingers…
        It’s bad enough strategy for teaching addition. It’s positively puerile instructions.
        Now how are they going to teach subtraction?

      • karen adkins

        how about just adding 7 and 7 like we were taught..use your fingers or chicken scratch marks….why do we have to confuse the smart kids to make them like the ones who either can’t or won;t learn…..my middle schooler just looked at the problem and said why all the steps…that;’s stupid….

      • TheOracle

        so instead of remembering 7 + 7 = 14, you need to remember 7 = 3+4 and 7+3 = 10 and 10 + 4 = 14. – They should call this “The Rube Goldberg” method.

        • Michael Anderson (WB)

          If they’re still teaching 7+7 in 4th grade then there’s a much bigger problem.

          The idea this is hopefully teaching is that as long as equality is maintained numbers can be split and combined as necessary. This is the way you teach algebra without inducing anxiety, it’s adapted from the curriculum of a very right wing super conservative Christian home school provider (ABeka). This is almost exactly as I learned it 34 years ago from them.

      • Bob Richards

        Or maybe just learn that 7 + 7 = 14

    • Steven Dietrich

      Grandaughter had trouble with division. Found out she didn’t know her times table. Met with teacher, she said “We don’t memorize times tables anymore”. WTF? (After school board meeting and VERY angry parents, they WILL be memorizing the times table).

      • bfplncc

        Daughter-in-law told us the other night at dinner that her 6th grade son has not been taught cursive writing. She is a part-time teacher who is teaching him on her own. Wife and I suggested that she seek out other parents like her and offer to teach their children as well; for a modest fee of course; free enterprise don’t you know!

      • Jeff

        I don’t know why that teacher said that, one of the third grade math standards in CC states “know from memory all products of all one digit numbers”. That is the multiplication table.

      • SturJen

        Lil’ Sturgeon just passed out of his teen years. In 4th grade, he was having issues with multiplication. I asked him why it was so hard for him to memorize the times tables. He said they didn’t use them anymore. So the Mister and I had him memorize the multiplication table at home.

        We go to conferences and his teacher remarks how much better he is at math lately. We admit that we made him memorize the multiplication tables. I swear, the woman was going to call Social Services on us! We were forced to endure this rant on how rote learning was ‘bad’ for kids.

        Last time we went to conferences. Any other modifications we did to their ~ahem~ ‘curriculum’ were done without their knowledge or permission

        • schveiguy

          In 3rd grade, I could solve math problems without really knowing the “correct” way to do it, and even couldn’t explain how I got the answer to the teacher – she was sure I was cheating. There was a program for “gifted” students that got to solve interesting puzzles, but first I had to pass a test where they gave me a list of addition/subtraction/mult/division problems and I had to finish them within a small period of time. But I don’t read quickly, so the time constraint always got to me. Until I could pass that, that’s what I was made to do.

          My mother helped me MEMORIZE THE ANSWERS, because the tests were always the same in the same order (thank god they used copy machines instead of computers back then!) Then I got to solve the fun interesting problems (which I did). The teacher never knew, but screw her and her damn timer :) In high school I was teaching all of my peers tricks on how to do calculus, and passed every test with 100%. The idea that every student has to learn the same way is BS, and common core needs to be taken out to the woodshed and put down. I feel bad for students whose parents just delegate the full job of teaching to the schools.

      • trixiewoobeans

        They don’t want the children, as adults, being able to ask Mr. Government Man WHERE THE HECK THEIR MONEY IS!!!!

    • https://www.denverprophit.us/ Denver Prophit Jr.

      I miss #schoolhouserock

    • CatHerder ✓fire! ✓fire!

      Imagine living in the early 1900s, when kids routinely memorized multiplication tables up to 20 x 20. When I read that, I thought our drill had been really dumbed down!

    • mikeinmn

      LOVED Schoolhouse Rock, have it on DVD for my kids. It sounds lame, but even with a PhD in math, I still hear the “multiplication tables” in my head when I’m doing some work… 3….is a magic number….

    • Happy Dragon

      I LOVED SchoolHouse Rock!

    • DebBrenn

      I did a college paper once totally based on, “I’m Only a Bill, Up on Capitol Hill” for which I received an A++ and a request by the teacher to keep a copy. Those School House Rock segments were amazing.

    • Josh Collison

      Not everyone can just memorize like a sponge, it’s stressful for some people and learning a formula is often times a lot easier than just grinding out facts. Those direction are pretty confusing though.

    • Beaglescout

      When my kids got to 3rd grade and started learning multiplication I looked all through their books to find the tables for multiplication, addition, and subtraction, to no avail. It wasn’t even there in the much praised Saxon math. I tried to get them to put in the effort and memorize the tables I typed up and printed out, as that’s the quickest and best way to learn multiplication, but their teachers discouraged it and they never learned it. Now my boy has taught himself to multiply by memory (more slowly than if he had memorized the tables), but the girls are both poor at basic arithmetic because they don’t have the mental tools to cope with it.

    • lukuj

      I used School House Rock in my classroom for years. Lolly, lolly ,lolly get your adverb here! kids loved it and it worked.

    • Ryan Johnson

      I had that, School House Rock copied from the VHS tapes from the library onto another VHS, and an educational multiplication rap cassette. Those worked, too!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004422431818 Sur Mar

    When I start to have Grandchildren, I’ll offer to teach them myself if practical, or at least offer to buy my children the Home Schooling Packets; I won’t trust public education anymore.

    • nc ✓s & balances

      I’m with you. Sad, isn’t it?

    • disqus_v3SHzvCspj

      You don’t trust universal indoctrination? How droll.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004422431818 Sur Mar

        I believe in what works, and from everything I had seen about Common Core, it sets people up to fail and rely on Government.
        Welfare=Slavery.

  • Michelle ✓classified

    Dafuq is that? Um, wasn’t the problem was solved at 7 + 7 = 14?

    • Matthew Koch

      Whoever wrote that must be on something because they are seriously tripping hard.

      • Michelle ✓classified

        From what I’m grasping from being exposed to all this Common Core nonsense is there’s no purpose to the way they ask kids to solve these problems. When I was in school, we were presented a problem and when we solved it, were then asked to apply the knowledge. What knowledge is learned from that crap above? In what situation is BS like that applied?

        • Matthew Koch

          I don’t think there’s any purpose to it at all. I just think that the people who came up with it are trying to make it seem like they’re doing something.

          Like Rush says when people talk about a liberal’s compassion. “Well at least they’re trying to do something!” Even if it does jack squat.

          • Michelle ✓classified

            I think that’s correct. This Common Core crap seems to be all about just keeping the creators, teachers and students busy without any real goal of helping the kids achieve usable knowledge.

            If I were a young student right now, I’d be sent to the Principal’s office at least once a week for challenging this crap.

          • grais

            Bingo!
            They’re trying to convince themselves or us anti-teachers-union types (hahahahaha) that they deserve more of everything.

        • Ernie Schwartz

          If they are using this simple problem to teach a technique that will work on more difficult problems, I have no complaint. I use all sorts of memory devices in math. For instance, to multiply anything by 9, add a zero and subtract the original amount. Properly taught, this technique will allow students to solve much larger problems in their head.

          Students should start with memorizing tables, and then move on to memory techniques that make solving complex problems simpler. My major complaint with current HS graduates is that they did not learn the tables and have no understanding of the relative size of numbers. Only about 2/3 of my freshman college students can tell me what is 38% of 100 without a calculator and most of the remaining 1/3 can’t do it with a calculator.

          • Demoriot

            That is the crux of it, not being taught the basics first. Due to my father’s career goals as civilian Navy, I managed to go to 8 different schools, all over the country by 8th grade, so was exposed to many different teaching systems. New
            math was all the rage in the 70s, in many places, but my parents made sure we were solid on basic addition and multiplication.

            Some of the math tricks stuck, the rest faded away. There is nothing wrong with providing some alternate methods, once children have done drills of single digit addition and
            subtraction and have those memorized, the same later after times tables. In my head, I always do make the mental connection to the next 10, when adding say 7 to 87, 90 and 4, but I also rote memorized 7 + 7 =14 back in 1st grade. Another 10’s thing that stuck with me, was when adding long columns of numbers, to scan the row of digits and pair by 10s first, then add rest.

            The problem now is that they are trying to avoid memorization to begin with and then force all the students
            into one mold, using the same trick method, which may not click with everyone. Parents need to take a more active role, anyway. My children had a good education at a parochial school, but I still drilled times tables and had home spelling bees etc, just like my parents did.

            Your example with percentage of 100 is shocking to me, as it is so core. Also, that they cannot use a calculator is almost worse; since so heavily relied on now, what were they taught at all?

          • Ernie Schwartz

            Their major problem is that they have no habit of estimating the answer before punching it into the calculator. They simply trust whatever the calculator says. In the case of division, they don’t know the difference between “divided by” and “goes into.” I propose a GZ key on all calculators. I will call it the “Guzinta” key.

        • Jeff

          What knowledge? That numbers are made up of other numbers, the importance of ten, developing mental math skills, etc.

    • RblDiver

      Pfft, in this increasingly complex world, we want our math to keep up and become complex, don’t we? I mean, we don’t want to say 1+1=2, we have to determine the nature of the problem, talk to each of the digits and see what’s going on in their lives, say that 1+1=3 is an OK answer to not hurt kids’ feelings…

      • Michelle ✓classified

        I was always a student that wondered to myself, “But why am I doing that? What is the purpose?” If I were a student getting that math problem, I’d be at the teacher’s desk asking, “What do number bonds and skip counting have to do with solving this problem? And where are these ‘ones’ it suggests I can count?”

  • Matthew Koch

    You Can’t Fix Stupid.
    -Ron White

  • Maxwell

    That really isn’t anything new. And it’s not really that complicated, it just adds another step to a simple problem to make it simpler.

    Your basically splitting one 7 into 3 & 4 since 7 plus 3 to get 10 and adding 4 to 10 is just as simple. It’s actually how I have to do a lot of my math since im so bad at it.

    • schveiguy

      I think that they are doing a disservice to the kids by not just having them memorize these small math problems. I can imagine that for someone who is struggling with math, it may help to visualize it this way to begin with, but this should not be the “standard.” Do you still have to split apart 7 to add 7+7 or do you just know it’s 14?

      • karmafordems

        This is fourth grade math. Is there a time or place in the space continuum where a fourth grader should not know that 7+7=14?

        • schveiguy

          Yeah, my 5 year old is adding numbers this big in his head already. This problem seems to just punish people who don’t know the “new math lingo”

          • karmafordems

            Yep, and you know who is being punished? The parents. Yep. Straight f*ckery

        • Bathing Suit Area

          Perhaps they’re using a simple example to learn a method which can then be applied to sums they haven’t memorized.

          • Michael Anderson (WB)

            When I’m up-voting BSA things are really screwed up.

            When we start teaching kids to add we give them blocks to move around (essentially an abacus) because they know how to count and the visual stimulation teaches them addition from counting. Once they get the basic concept that adding numbers together makes new numbers we make them memorize their addition tables.

            As we get the kids ready for algebra we start teaching them that equations are fluid as long as they maintain equality. To start there we go back to what they know by heart. Every 4th grader had better know that 7+7=14, we use what they know to explain what they might not know. 7+7 = 7 + 3 + 4 = 6 + 8 = 7 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1. As long as equality is maintained the equation is true. It’s called learning a proof.

            When they get into trig there will be more proofs to learn by means of the knowledge they already have from algebra and geometry. When they get to calculus they will integrate the function for the slope of a right triangle to calculate the area. When they get to differential equations they will start with the Fourier transform before moving on to the much more elegant Laplace transform.

            In other words, while CC is bad, untwist your panties and realize this example is not.

          • disqus_v3SHzvCspj

            You are too kind. Quackery this stupid had to be the product of a greedy PhD. If we swallow it it’s our fault.

          • Jay Stevens

            Not only a “greedy PhD”, a greedy PhD in Education.

      • Maxwell

        I actually can’t say with 100% certainly that I would instantly recognize 7 +7 as 14. Like I said, I’m really… REALLY… bad at math and with numbers (God help me if I marry someone who is equally bad with numbers). I’m in algebra… in college… and I still have to break down numbers, simplify equations, and rearrange problems to make them easier to solve. I also have to write out simple math to remind me to carry the one and what not.

        And to be fair, we’re not sure this is the standard. It is the lesson 5 homework. They could be introducing this later to help those who are struggling with instantly recognizing 7+7 as 14.

        • Michael Rice

          Then let those kids who don’t get it be taught that way. That is a bigger part of it.

          We once broke kids into ability based classes for English and Math.

          But, oh Lord, some kids might get their feelings hurt by being in a lower level class.

          So, the “solution” was to force them all together and make the more advanced kids wait around and do busy work while the less advanced kids learned.

          I speak from experience, because that is exactly what they did to my son….until we switched schools.

          At his first school, he would literally spend half the class doing busy work, coloring and nonsense…with no relation to the subject.

          We switched schools and they placed them in appropriate classes and sent the most advanced to challenging classes 1-2 days a week to work ahead.

          It works.

          My nephews were borderline passing at their old school, the same one my son went, to.

          They transferred with is and shocker he was doing more advanced work and getting it right in a matter of weeks.

          • Maxwell

            Like I stated above, it doesn’t hurt the kids who get it to learn a new application… it may even help them in the long run.

            And I agree, it’s a shame when some students have to be held back for the sake of others. It was that way with me and English. And some schools, like the gradeschool I went to, are trying to eliminate that. Some aren’t, which is a shame. And I’ve also been the kid who grew disinterested in his schoolwork because it was too easy, and therefore did worse at it. Then, of course, I couldn’t be placed in the AP courses I wanted because I did so poorly in the regular course because of my disinterest.

            I won’t deny there’s a lot wrong the educational system in this country, and much of it needs to be changed. But I don’t see the issue here.

        • schveiguy

          What works best for you does not mean it works best for everyone. This is the crux of why common core is so bad. The vast majority of kids and adults have no problem memorizing low-addition issues. We should not be using the lowest common denominator so “all kids” can be taught. I’m a huge proponent of home-schooling simply because every kid learns differently, and requires a different lesson plan.

          P.S. I bet you never forget now what 7+7 is :)

          • Maxwell

            Perhaps, my tutor tells me I’m better at mental math than I give myself credit for… but that’s beside the point.

            Like I said before, I don’t think this is the standard they want everyone doing math, just in this lesson that covers the principal. I believe they will show students all the varied ways to get the correct answer, and let them decide which way they like best… but I’m an optimist :)

    • Catchance

      I think we all have ways of figuring amounts without actually doing the full addition or multiplication. (ie, if I need to know how much 17 pencils @ .13 is, I would probably figure $1.70 + .51 = 2.21 or maybe $1.30 + .91 = 2.21 ) but I need to know how to do it the regular way first. Plus they’re giving them the answer to the “bonds” (3+4). Once you memorize the multiplication tables it makes things much easier down the road.

    • Bathing Suit Area

      It’s how a lot of people do mental arithmetic. This is just formalizing the algorithm. It’s not inherently better or worse than memorizing more sums.

      • Man From AUNTIE

        The thing though is that everyone uses a different algorithm. What works for me may not work for you, and vice versa. That is the issue with Common Core, that damned cookie cutter approach.

        • Maxwell

          They could be showing as one way, out of many, to add 7+7.

          I feel like they’re basically saying “Hey, if you’re having trouble, why not try it this way.”

        • Bathing Suit Area

          So because people use different algorithms, schools shouldn’t teach any?

          • Man From AUNTIE

            I didn’t say that but I see where it looks like I implied that. My mistake. As Maxwell seems to be saying, this is one way to do it, the basics are in here, come up with your own way to add it and be right.

          • Evil Otto

            It’s not your fault… BSA is being a troll.

          • Michael Rice

            You don’t pay attention well, do you?

            Common Core is notorious for the cookie cutter approach. They are taking away different approaches.

          • disqus_v3SHzvCspj

            Also occasionally you might get the correct answer by using the wrong method. There should be alternate techniques and ‘check your answer’ methods if the answer is really important.

          • Evil Otto

            Look up the term “straw man argument.” Then go back to MfA’s comment and point out where he argued that “schools shouldn’t teach any.”

      • Maxwell

        It’s scary when you and I agree on something…

  • JeffWRidge

    The best I can figure, they want the kids to breakdown one of the 7s into 4 and 3, then add the 3 to the other 7 making 10, and then add the 4 to the 10 to get 14.

    It’s as if whoever wrote the instructions is out to confuse the kids.

    • louisiana_mom

      That’s the best I can figure out also… what happened to just learning your basic math facts and know that 7 + 7 = 14! But remember the Progressives tell us that Rote Learning (the way we memorized our math facts) doesn’t work… *eyeroll!

      • JeffWRidge

        I looked it up and according to Wikipedia number bonds are just a basic addition that kids can do automatically in their heads. Skip counting seems to be counting up by twos (as opposed to counting by ones) to get to the answer.

        I suppose the kids already know this terminology, so maybe it’s not as confusing to them. But I still think the wording is the problem. The instructions are just odd.

      • Bathing Suit Area

        Rote learning doesn’t scale up well.

        • schveiguy

          It’s not a question of scaling. There are fundamentals that you just “know”, and then there are the mechanisms to use those fundamentals that do scale.

          For example, if you know all of x + y by heart with numbers of 0 to 9 for x and y, you can use the “carry the one” method to add any two numbers of any size quickly and efficiently.

          This mechanism seems to only require you to memorize x + y for all numbers that add up to 10 or less, but also requires you to know how to subtract those numbers as well. You are just memorizing a different set of fundamentals. Which one is better? In a world of calculators, I’m not sure it matters :) Certainly, you have less fundamental facts to remember, but I don’t know that it’s easier to comprehend. Plus, I’m not sure how this scales for larger numbers. Do you do carry the one, or is it something else?

        • louisiana_mom

          I never had any problem with math… I had my basics which I learned with rote learning… with that foundation firmly in place I was able to learn fractions, algebra, and geometry without any problems… but if you don’t have your foundation, you cannot build upon it. All this CC is doing is taking simple basic math and making it confusing… Just learn 7 + 7 = 14 and then you can build on that but if the students have to go through mental gymnastics to reach even a simple sum, adding algebra on top of it later will only make algebra that much harder to comprehend! You are less likely to forget the basic facts than you are all these tricks to get the answer…

          • Man From AUNTIE

            Algebra makes my head hurt. Basic math, not a issue, but put the word algebra in there and I am lost. Even though I work with formulas all the time, as long as I don’t think of it as algebraic I seem fine.
            Yes, it is a panic trigger I have with math.

          • louisiana_mom

            LOL! I loved math but I am the same with word problems… just trying to figure out what they were asking for… give me a problem (even a geometry problem where I have to look for the info) over a word problem any day.

          • Man From AUNTIE

            I love word problems, it is like a puzzle, find the important details and ignore the fluff.

          • louisiana_mom

            I feel the same way about geometry! I love working geometry problems… give me the figure and let me find x.

          • Man From AUNTIE

            What was that saying that Candy had from 2 and a 1/2 men about geometry?
            Oh yeah, Gee I am a tree…that is how I view geometry
            .

          • louisiana_mom

            Never watched 2 and 1/2 Men… geometry is set, it’s orderly, it’s logical… it’s learning the rules and using them to solve the mystery. I loved the challenge.

          • Man From AUNTIE

            I never got into a geometry class so I never knew the rules. I flunked out of algebra and had to use a consumer math class to get my diploma. But I can balance a businesses books, find missing money, figure out differing measurements-i.e. imperial and metric, but above that? I am lost in the woods.

          • Maxwell

            My issue is… I just don’t get math. I always have to break down problems into easier components, and I’m always glad when my teachers show me how to do it. I admit, it does get confusing when they’re showing me all these different techniques, and I end up mixing them up. It doesn’t really hurt me at the higher level, I just have more steps to each math problem.

          • louisiana_mom

            Spending 6 years as a teacher’s aide (mainly math) in a junior high/high school… I can tell you breaking problems down to their basic level and working each step is the best way to work a problem. You are less likely to make a simple error. Math is only 4 operations: addition, subtraction, multiplication, or division. Most people try to make it more complicated… but it’s basically the same stuff you learned in elementary school with more steps. :-)

          • Maxwell

            It’s still intimidating, I even get intimidated with three digit numbers (especially dividing them.) I can write a paper that will make a liberal question his pro-choice stance. But tell me to do long division, and I start crying.

          • louisiana_mom

            LOL! Give me a paper to write and I go blank!!! Even a subject I know inside and out… Give me the 3 digit long division without a calculator any day! 😀

          • Jay Stevens

            “Just learn 7 + 7 = 14 … ”

            And if you have problems, make two groups of seven dots, and count them: “1, 2, 3, … , 13, 14.” So, “7 + 7 = 14”. Got it. And move on.

          • Michael Anderson (WB)

            These aren’t tricks. This is taking what should be known (at least for a fourth grader) and using it to demonstrate a new concept that leads toward algebra. This isn’t a left wing idea either. The first place I saw it was as a kid in home school from the ABeka curriculum. ABeka pretty much considers the rest of the nation to be left wing liberals.

            The idea is:
            Kids you know what 7+7 is, right?

            OK, now let me show you something about 7+7:
            3 + 4 = 7, right?

            So we can substitute 3 + 4 in place of one of the 7’s.
            That makes
            7 + 3 + 4

            Let’s group them:
            (7 + 3) + 4

            Let’s solve the parts:
            (7 + 3) + 4
            10 + 4

            This demonstrates that numbers can be split as needed for other operations. This is a critical as kids prepare for higher math they should be getting in 6th grade and above.

            ABeka taught concepts like this early on which made the transition to algebra and even more advanced math simple and stress free.

          • louisiana_mom

            All I know is I worked as a teacher’s aide (mainly in math classes) in junior high/high school level. I worked with the at risk students who get all these concepts confused in their heads… they know 7+7=14 but then want to add another 3 because some teacher showed her a trick some where and she ends up with 17 as her answer… Some kids become more confused with these tricks, concepts or whatever you want to call them. Stick with teaching the basics and let each individual child develop their own strategies for learning the information. If that individual student still has difficulties then yes, teach them something else but don’t confuse otherwise unconfused students who have worked out their own methods for adding basic numbers. What works for me, may not work for you and only confuse you further!

          • Michael Anderson (WB)

            Stick with teaching which basics? The basics of education is using what is known as a launching pad to what needs to be learned. This is not a trick.

            In kindergarten you start with what is known, the physical world and learn to count and add with blocks or marbles. As you progress through elementary school you memorize basic addition, subtraction, multiplication and division tables. Those become what is known. As you get toward the end of elementary school you start branching out from those and learn how what you know can be manipulated to launch into the next level of mathematics: algebra. In middle school you continue on the path toward algebra, but it isn’t usually called algebra because students are scared of that term. THIS IS NOT A NEW THING, THIS IS NOT A TRICK.

            If a student cannot yet grasp the concepts being taught at a given level, that student should not be allowed to continue until they do. About the only exception to this would be a disabled student who will not be able to proceed.

    • schveiguy

      Breaking up numbers to make 10s is generally useful, but not at the level of 7 + 7. You just memorize that.

      At 9 years old, the kid should already know that one by heart.

      I typically break apart numbers into 10s or 5s when multiplying larger numbers. But anything under 10 should be automatic. I remember when all they wanted was the answer, not some bureaucratic steps in the middle.

      • JeffWRidge

        Agreed. As I wrote to “louisiana_mom” that’s apparently what number bonds are. They’re math problems that the kids are already familiar with and able to do automatically. I really do think a large part of the problem with this is the instructions.

    • grais

      If you complicate it with more steps, everybody feels smarter!!

      That’s sooo cool!!

      /sarc

  • Iacobus

    Keeping the kids stupid, one “math problem” at a time.

    Woe to the future. It doesn’t look good.

  • jaded

    I don’t know why they have to break it down further, at some point you know automatically 7+7=14, and eventually they hit 7th grade and use calculators anyway. I’m seeing this with my 6yo now, and when I tried to explain how to “carry a 1” to the tens column, he looked at me like I had two heads: “that’s not how my teacher taught me!”. And the story problems at this age are nuts, along with the made-up names they give the people. But I guess that makes me make anti-multiculteral, which I would accept if I had ever heard of these Star Wars-type names before!

    • grais

      lol
      sounds like fun!

    • Bathing Suit Area

      “that’s not how my teacher taught me!”

      Isn’t that pretty much exactly the objection that everyone here is having to this method?

      • Man From AUNTIE

        Actually I think it is the more complex instructions that the issue. Of course with each generation that happens. I remember my Mom trying to help me with math in the 80s, and she was dumbfounded by trying to do it the way I was being taught. So she just taught me what she knew and I applied it to the questions. Yes I got asked where I learned it but hey, the teacher realized I was doing it right and left it alone.

        • Bathing Suit Area

          Yeah, I had pretty much the same story as you there. Learning multiple approaches can actually help understanding in the end.

          This method seems to be closer to how most people do things mentally, but looks messy written out. Given that in the real world people do far more mental addition than they do writing things out, this makes sense.

          • Man From AUNTIE

            True, I know that trying to explain how I came up with a answer seems to be more trouble and frustrating than just taking the answer and running with it.

          • Michael Rice

            Nope. I pretty much know 7 plus 7 is 14…

          • Demoriot

            There you go; multiple approaches, the antithesis of Common Core. Memorize basics, then introduce alternate methodS, not just one, and for some kids those will help things click and allow them to think faster.

        • jaded

          If they didn’t change the curriculum so often, it would be easier on parents, but when your child comes to you for help and the worksheets look like a foreign language, I’m not sure who is benefiting.

          • Man From AUNTIE

            That is true. Just remember, Don’t pity mankind, because progress is a comfortable disease. Or something like that, I am not sure of the pity part of the quote and I ain’t goggling it just to find out.

          • jaded

            I have kids that range in age from 28-6. The number of changes in the math curriculum is crazy. I think this is how scientists can “prove” anything, the precursor! I like showing various methods because if we were honest, all kids grasp things differently… I think this is why l like Khan Academy when trying to figure out the methods of madness going on.

        • Michael Anderson (WB)

          If this is what they are using to teach 7+7 then it’s a bad way to do it. But if, as I suspect, this is how they are bridging the gap to more complex math then it’s absolutely right.

          When I started in Calculus 1 we solved the area of a right triangle the calculus way. It’s a stupid way to find the area of a right triangle, just remember 1/2 b*h instead. But it’s a great way to demonstrate what you are learning from what you already know.

      • jaded

        I think it’s more of a time honored tradition that all parents hear, not unusual.

      • Michael Rice

        No….the problem is the cookie cooker approach and making the problem more complicated than it has to be.

  • grais

    She’s funny!

  • hardtruth00

    A dumb society is one that is easily controlled. It’s the Democrat mantra

  • tops116 ✓Quipper

    Y’know with Common Core math, Obamacare actually has successful numbers.

  • WhoDat

    I’m going to assume they’re teaching the students how do do this.

    • Bathing Suit Area

      Obviously that means you’re a communist.

  • drw

    ‘They’re making kids stupid now’
    Judging by some of the politicians in this country, they’ve been making stupid kids for years.

  • therealguyfaux ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

    Let’s look at the real-world application. You’re gonna buy two items @ $6.99 (round to seven for ease of calculation). You have a ten and a mess of singles, so figure out how many singles you’re going to need.

    Unless at some future point we’re going to do away with currency as legal tender for all debts public and private, those kids are gonna run across that problem in real life. But to get all fancy-schmancy and call it “Number Bonding” makes it sound as if the numbers are all gonna get together for a weeklong camping trip in the woods to test their teamwork mettle. Or something.

  • 24601

    All that to come up with a sum I could do in my head. In fact, I knew the sum, the difference, the product, the quotient, the fact that 7 is prime, and the odds of rolling 7 with a pair of dice (1 in 6) in my head almost as soon as I saw the number 7 on the page.

    What purpose does expressing a simple sum in this way serve?
    7+7 = (4+3)+7 = (4+3)+(4+3) = (2+2+1+1+1)+(2+2+1+1+1) =
    (1+1+1+1+1+1+1)+(1+1+1+1+1+1+1) = 14? Oh, and I solved the last part by counting on my toes.

    • Mark_Trail

      They don’t want you to do anything in your head that they don’t want in there. Get with the program, slacker!

  • John Howard

    So instead of teaching them what 7 + 7 is, you teach them what 7 + 3 is and what 4 + 3 is?
    M’kay. So much better.

  • stuckinIL4now

    This is how you confuse people so much that their brains seize up and they cease thinking and the younger you get them to cease thinking the sooner you can begin to control them and tell them what to think.

  • texastommy

    I just learned that 7 + 7 was 14.

    • MILEXIT!™

      That seems ridiculous, who taught you that crap!??

  • bonnie1

    I think I would rather see kids count on their fingers than play these games. This is exactly where memorization and rote practice should be used – not these games designed to lessen the burden of thinking. Shameful.

  • fmorgan09mm

    Better yet we have computers for this stuff. I remember back in the day the teachers telling us that we could not use calculators because you never know if that technology will go away? Really? We should be teaching them better use of the computer it will solve all of this stuff and we are not going to lose technology.

    • Stephen Lawson

      If you really want to dumb down American society, get machines made in China to do your thinking for you. We live in a world full of useless idiots.

  • Tanker74

    Tell us how you really feel, Lauren. lol

  • Lou Cifer

    They need to get rid of the common core crap and replace it with some good old fashioned common sense.

    • dareisay

      I am not sure common sense can be taught, I wish it could.

      • therealguyfaux ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

        Socrates’s dialogue with Meno on doubling the square (as long as we’re on the subject of mathematics). Socrates was trying to show, just as Pythagoras had done a century before, that if you show something to some people, common sense takes over. That implies that the person is open to learning, however.

  • Bandit Keena

    Funny – I understood it in about 2msecs

  • DuchessofDownton

    Who is making stupid kids? Who are “they”? If you don’t like the math problem above, I suggest you speak to the teacher about solving it or the methods to solve it or start augmenting your child’s education at home each evening.

    No one is making a stupid kid except you. Do you depend entirely on a government funded institution staffed by union sheeple to teach your children? Really? Then you get what you deserve.

    Get a hold of the teacher and find out for yourselves how to solve the above math problem and the methods she is being forced to use. Then, start teaching your child traditional mathematics, English, grammar, history and everything else at home. Turn OFF The Bachelor, Dancing with the Stars, Mike and Molly or whatever horsecrap comes through on the boob tube, sit down at the table while the kids are doing homework and work with them.

    That’s your job. You’re their parent. No more “me” time. No more “I work all day, I’m tired at night”. Too damn bad. Those credit cards shouldn’t be maxed out or that car payment shouldn’t be so high or maybe those clothes from Aeropostale weren’t really needed. Then maybe one of you could stay home and monitor what in the hell is happening in your child’s school. Your job is to be a parent and that includes being a teacher. Every single night you should be going over SOMETHING educational. Sounds like a drag? Well Boo friggin Hoo. That’s the deal you signed on for.

    Don’t blame this on Common Core. Parents have been negating almost all of their responsibilities on government funded schools and requiring individuals who bray to unions for their very being to teach children and you’re surprised by any of this?

    Get your head out of your arse and take back your child’s education instead of expecting those drones at public school to do it for you.

    • Steven Dietrich

      We would be working with our kids, except the kids are not allowed to bring home textbooks. This one article covers most of what Common Core really is…Hillsdale Professor Dr. Terrence Moore: Common Core ‘Superficial, Biased, Embarrassingly Dumb’ http://bit.ly/KxONTT

      • Stephen Lawson

        I had a similar experience last year with the fourth graders not being allowed to bring their social studies books home. That problem was solved with a visit to the school and a discussion about my need to be proactively involved with the children’s education.

      • DuchessofDownton

        That is a total and complete whining cop out. Did you read ANYTHING from my post?

        Your child’s education is up to YOU. You’re just whining about how the government school is limiting you. Well DUH.

        Go online. You found this post so you can Google “homeschool materials” and find workbooks and other books geared to your child’s grade and go over math, English, grammar, science, social studies, everything they need to know at their grade level.

        Then, take a couple of hours off of work, make an appointment to meet with the teacher and discuss how your child’s lessons can be copied off from the textbook so he/she can bring them home for you to go over with your child.

        Don’t whine to me about not being able to take home textbooks and now you’re screwed! Barnes and Noble carries a whole rack of workbooks geared from Pre K on up full of lessons in various subjects to help kids get ahead of their subject matter and you pout to me that you can’t help your kid with his/her schoolwork because the school won’t let you take home the textbook?

        Give me a break!!! No wonder our kids are failures. You won’t even take the time to go outside of the box and get what your kid needs to get ahead!

        • Steven Dietrich

          Dutchess, you seem to be missing the point here. Common Core is not about education it’s about control. Government control over what your children learn. I could do everthing you suggest, but then why am I paying for teachers? If I take time off and puchased these books and work with my children will they give me a reduction in my property tax? We attended a very large meeting with teachers and administartion. They could not give us the answers because they were not given the materials nessasary for the answers. It’s not the teachers fault. They are left clueless as to what to do. And even if I did all the work myself, the children still must pass a Common Core test which is based on Common Core material and not what I can buy in the store. See here for details: http://bit.ly/1hkkRFM

          • DuchessofDownton

            Steve, seriously…could you be more off the point? You have a choice: whine and moan about the waste of your taxpayers’ dollars and not handle your child’s education and leave him/her at the mercy of government schools to become a moron like the government workers are or understand that your tax dollars will and still are being pi$$ed away and always will be and educate your child yourself the way that he/she should be? (Holy run on sentence, BatMan)

            No, Steve, you will not get a reduction in taxes for augmenting your child’s education or homeschooling. Your children only have to pass a Common Core test if they are taught in a Common Core school. Homeschooled kids have to pass state tests not Common Core tests. Even so, kids augmented at home or homeschooled at home can still pass Common Core. No one is going to flunk a kid. Those days are over. Just talk to your teachers and your school principal. NO ONE flunks anymore. Everyone is socially promoted regardless of score and you can’t tell me otherwise. I know too many teachers who have kids in their class who have NO business moving on to the next grade that will be because the principal will not have anyone flunking a grade.

            Regardless. It’s not just your property taxes that are being pi$$ed away, all of your taxes are but I don’t see you complaining about that. Even so, I still wouldn’t abandon MY children to a Common Core education when I could get my head out of my arse, make an effort and make sure I gave them the education they need to survive as adults. THAT’S your job. Not the school’s.

            You have a choice, Steve… worry about your taxes and what’s in all of this FOR YOU and abandon your children to a substandard education or do your job as a parent and augment their education or homeschool.. There is no episode of Duck Dynasty or video game or other time suck out there that is more important than training up your kids in the way that they should go.

            This is up to you, Steve. You’re the parent. You make the choice.

  • Daniel De Kok

    “one,, two, skip a few, 99, 100…”

  • Maureen Longfellow Taylor

    Must be a creative writing class as well, I don’t even understand the directions. I love the old way…counting on my fingers.

    • dareisay

      They probably still use their fingers!

  • Sylow59

    I scored a 750 (/800) Math SAT, made a 4.00 GPA in 7 HS math courses, made a 3.85 (/4.00) GPA over 23 math courses in college, and am a practicing actuary. This is how I add. I disagree with much of common core, but this is actually makes math a whole lot easier once you get used to it.

    And, BTW, I taught this to my daughter when she was young. She started HS with Algebra 2.

    • Stephen Lawson

      This is the way I think when I do math in my head, however the way the instruction is phrased seems awkward. Unfortunately, some comments on this thread make less sense than the article. There are a lot of things I am opposed to with the Common Core curriculum, most of which is political bias, progressive socialism and their approach to sexual education and orientation.

      • therealguyfaux ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

        Actually, if, as with, say, income tax, you have a string of numbers arranged vertically, finding “ten combinations” is something I learned in school a long time ago, post-New Math but pre-calculator. It had to do with the commutative property of addition, i.e., the order in which you add makes no difference. Easier to find the “6” and the “4”, and then the “8” and the “2”, so now you’ve got “twenty,” etc, etc.

      • Sylow59

        I have the same issues with CC.

        I think the instructions are presented out of context. The students would have been presented these concepts.

        What most posters arr missing is that 7 + 7is used to present and test the concept. It is the case in any math textbook at any level that new concepts use manageable examples and are then expanded to more complex problems.

  • MnVoiceofReason

    Doing math problems a differernt way is not the problem with common core. It’s the reading comprehension problems with obvious leftist propaganda that I have a problem with.

  • KNERDY

    Looking at this Bimbo’s tweets, she could use some common core herself.

  • Jerry Jansen

    If you think that’s bad wait until you watch this one: http://youtu.be/wZEGijN_8R0

  • plaintired

    It doesn’t matter if you understand it, or even know what class you’re in apparently. You get the same credit for getting the wrong answer anyway, so just scribble something down.

  • native son

    6 of one a half dozen of the other (math term) lol. As long as my daughter can do the math ; I don’t care how she does it. I do like the term “fuckery” though. Lmao!

  • Guest

    If I wasn’t ADHD in math, I would have been.

  • wil_robel

    Everything is doubleplusgood.

    • wil_robel

      Or 2+2=5.

  • Coaldawg

    So, if kids learn this nothing, then when they get a job and are told that let’s say they get $10.00 an hour, but when payday arrives it is only $6.00 an hour, how will they know the difference? If they ask, I suppose the employer can say it is $10.00/hr, because he had to divide the 10 by global warming effect and multiply it by income equality plus add his fair share and then deduct core reasoning and therefore it is correct. Well, something like that.

  • Taxilady88

    THIS one I understand…by thinking 3 + 4…makes it easier to get 14. YOU know the answer, but a child may not. If you break down one of the numbers, you know 7 + 3 is 10 and you have 4 left over to add in. I do that in my head sometimes when I have a list of numbers to add and do not have a calculator.

  • Ron

    If I wasn’t ADHD in math, I would have been after trying Common Crap.

  • Jay Jay

    my father used to do math like this in his head. He felt rounding to 10 helped figure the problem better. It’s a trick. With that said I am NOT in favor of the common core testing. They have taken out a massive amount of important studies in favor of a worker bee mind set. A brilliant young boy said about common core, they are not trying to inspire greatness anymore but mediocrity. That is NOT America. I am fed up with this push to globalize our country. When Reagan let go the reins we were the world’s leader. This is where the process of voting for Presidents like it’s a high school election has gotten us. The bottom of the barrel.

    • Michael Anderson (WB)

      It’s not a trick, it’s just re-arranging the numbers and it teaches kids that numbers are composed of other numbers. It’s a useful bit of knowledge and I even like the way it’s presented here (which is odd considering CC usually mucks it up).

      I’ve lived in a country where all learning was by rote repetition, they chanted the answers. Guess how many engineers and scientists they turn out: almost none, but plenty of Al Qaida volunteers.

  • JWII

    This is just more of what I have been seeing with my sons math for several years. The ” rules” have gone completely beserk. The PHD’s have screwed over the kids in trying to justify their own existence.

  • rambler

    The smart kids will do just fine, it’s the rest of the kids who will suffer because of this stupidity.

  • Sylow59

    All of mathematics, especially at the upper level theoretical levels, is about breaking the problem into smaller components and solving them

    • MILEXIT!™

      Ok…1+1~~> 1+0.25+0.25+0.25+0.25=2!!! Wheeeeeee

      • Sylow59

        Your picture implies you’re an adult.

        • Ricard

          …your picture implies you’re an empty suit? 😉

          • Sylow59

            We look like twins

        • MILEXIT!™

          Your comment implies that you have trouble reading the back of your pill bottle.

  • MILEXIT!™

    Since the problem is linear they could have integrated and solved it in 4 easy steps.

    • Michael Anderson (WB)

      And as they advance in math they might just get to that point, although when I started we just found the area of a right triangle.

      • MILEXIT!™

        Did you try using differential equations to reverse the process of finding that area? It would have made it so much easier.

        • Michael Anderson (WB)

          When I got to Diff-Eq (we called it difficult equations), we used the Fourier transform and then moved to the Laplace which is much nicer.

          My Diff-Eq prof was a mechanical engineer, and most of the class were engineering students so we used mechanical concepts to learn most of it. Once again, we took what we knew and used it to learn what we didn’t.

  • Ernie Hesterly

    I used to substitute teach all sorts of middle school classes, including math classes. I still can’t understand why students are not required to memorize basic math facts. I was given and addition chart running from 0+0 through 20+20, and a multiplication chart through 12×12. I memorized those and then had a good foundation on which to build more complex math knowledge. Once you have a good foundation, you’re set for life. Counting on fingers and other “tricks” are no substitution for a basic solid foundation. This CC garbage puts the cart before the horse. How many of you learned to spell before you learned to speak? Same thing here. Learn it first, learn WHY second. Much easier.

  • Mike Peterson

    Counting on your fingers makes more sense than this. They should teach this.

  • frgough

    I think the problem here is making up stupid words to teach simple principles. Number bonds and skip counting? Sounds like the pseudo intellispeak you get out of educated idiots in a faculty lounge.

  • dtom_molonlabe

    This is how I thought myself math. I suck at math as a result. This is basically math deficient people teaching math. Scary.

    • Sylow59

      This is how I taught myself arithmetic. I’m an actuary.

      • Ricard

        Some people are mentally wired for math; others are not. The above problem, and your method, does not appear to be the way to teach a common curriculum. Advanced classes, perhaps…

        • Sylow59

          You start early.

          • Aimee

            Those who can do this math will always be able to. Those who can’t will never be able to. Starting age has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

  • Michael Anderson (WB)

    Look Common Core’s end game is rotten and so it should be looked at carefully, but this is a pretty reasonable explanation of how math and numbers work. Yes, in this case it’s complicating the simple, but that’s how you teach: take something they know and show them how they can use the advanced method to solve it.

    Every kid should know that 7+7 is 14, but also knowing that 7+7 = 7 + (3 + 4) = 10 + 4 = 14, is helpful to understand that numbers and operations can be re-arranged in order to simplify the problem. This teaches the concept of patterns that will help in advanced math like calculus.

    • Mark_Trail

      Fifth graders don’t need to do calculus. Why not just teach fifth graders calculus instead of math, then? The reason being, of course, is that first they have to know math before they can do calculus. Making the simple complicated never helped anybody.because the simple, the basics, never end up in “theory.” Theories can be manipulated. Numbers can’t.

      • Michael Anderson (WB)

        Fifth graders need to be getting ready for algebra. This is a step to understanding the fluidity of equations that will be needed for algebra.

        Making the simple complicated is a horrible way to teach the simple concepts, but it’s the perfect way to teach the complicated concepts. I’ll take an example from Calculus 1 because further back is ancient history:

        In Calculus 1 I started by learning to find the area of a right triangle from the equation of the line. It’s a really stupid way to find the area of a triangle, but it’s a great way to demonstrate what calculus is about.

        • Ricard

          The given problem implies that the ‘3’ is part of the process in solving the problem pictured; it’s not. Even in preparation for algebra, a student shouldn’t even be thinking about the number 3 when calculating that X=14 in 10+4 = X.

          • Michael Anderson (WB)

            Lots of kids get frustrated if you put letters in the equation. This is how you get them comfortable with the idea that equations are fluid.

            Let me put it this way, I was taught math through a course that was about as far right as you can get (yes they politicized the math – taxes were presented as evil, etc) and this is how they got us ready for algebra. It’s a well established teaching method. Start with what the student knows and use that to demonstrate what you want them to learn.

          • Ricard

            …let me revise and extend…

            The given problem implies that the ‘3’ is part of the process in solving the problem pictured; it’s not. Even in preparation for algebra, a student shouldn’t even be thinking about the number 3 when calculating that __=14 in 10+4 = __.

            I couldn’t help but notice that my inclusion of X for the blank space made my point confusing to you. Imagine the confusion to a 4th grader trying to figure out where to cram the number three in the thought process when coming up with a correct answer of 14 for the equation 10+4 = __.

        • Mark_Trail

          Some people aren’t going to be good at advanced math. For those people it would be a good thing that they learn basic mathematics without the bells and whistles, don’t you think? What will those people have to fall back on if they don’t know how to do basic math without some tricky “word game” or “imagineering” sequence in their heads?

          • Michael Anderson (WB)

            If they’re in 4th grade they better already know their addition tables at least to 20+20. This is a horrible way to teach them that.

          • Ricard

            Never underestimate the value of flash cards. 😉

          • Jeff

            That’s exactly the wrong way of thinking about it. What you just said almost implies a lower expectation. Building a deeper understanding from an earlier age will make higher level mathematics more accessible to more people.

        • Mark_Trail

          Yes, Common Core’s end game is rotten. Here’s what is rotten about it: If you can convince children that they don’t have and can’t have any math knowledge except through some complicated process administered through a special instructor, and that the simplest way is no longer as valid, then it’s a relatively easy thing to convince children that they will always need that special “interpreter of knowledge” to guide them along their path of life in other areas of knowledge, like history or civics. Math being solid and objective, can be made watery and subjective. Subject to what? The way you’re instructed to think is the right way. Like Obama’s “Julia,” you will always need the special assistance of “navigators” from Washington, DC to be your own special friend throughout life’s ups and downs.

          The common theme of Common Core is “Your parents are stupid, and we can help you.” Like Ronald Reagan said, “The most dreaded words are ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help you.’.”

          This is a variation on the theme of how Communists “de-programmed” children in the Soviet Union, washing their minds of belief in a Creator. They would ask the children to pray for candy. The kids prayed. No candy. Then they would bring in the Commissar and tell the kids to ask the Commissar for candy. Voila! Candy! Then the teacher would ask the kids, “Now, do you believe in God?”

          Planned Parenthood once used this method in “Comprehensive Sex Education.” They’d sit the kids down in a circle on the floor and ask them to name their private parts. Each child’s parents would have used a euphemism to describe their private parts. The teacher then told the children, “No, girls have a vagina and boys have a penis; your parent aren’t very smart, are they?” Planned Parenthood no longer uses this method, but it was very effective on the parents of the children they work with now.

          See, it’s all about taking away children’s “ownership” of knowledge. Simple math skills can be learned by all using the same method which doesn’t need any outside interpreter of knowledge to say, “OK, that’s the right way to do math.” The thing is, kids may come up with this other way of understanding how to navigate arithmetical problems in their heads, which is fine, but that’s their way of experiencing math, not the other kid’s necessarily. No one really “owns” math knowledge anyway, but once you’ve mastered the multiplication tables, you can’t “un-know” them. But with Common Core, “ownership” of knowledge is contingent upon getting the answers “the right way, which is the new way of doing things,” which, of course, that way will always be the way the “navigators” tell you is the right way.

          Common Core is Cookie Cutter “special instruction,” And it’s designed to separate children from their parents and make them subservient slaves to the Federal Government “minders” who want submissive slaves to control. It’s not Common Core, it’s Common Control. Like “birth control,” and “population control.”

          You can scoff if you want, but we spend billions every year on educating the masses and providing them with things that control their lives. The only thing left is to make the control complete, and control minds without having to use expensive drugs.

          • Michael Anderson (WB)

            That’s all true, but it does not apply to a mode of teaching mathematics that has been in use and successful for at least 34 years (that’s about right for me). The problem in this specific incident is not Common Core, the problem is people hear “Common Core” and won’t recognize that this mode of teaching is not new math but old math. It’s been taken out of context and most of the people on here are falling for a feint.

          • Mark_Trail

            So, let me understand you correctly. It’s OK with you that kids are being groomed to be controlled by a Federal Government “navigator,” using math instruction as a “bonding agent” to glue children at the hip to the Federal Government and Bill Gates-type thinking forever, from kindergarten to the grave?

            So what if it is “old math?” You can use any mind trick to deceive young minds, who didn’t happen to be around 34 years ago like you to make the comparison between simple math skills and new math skills.

            I went to great lengths to provide historical evidence of Communist-type manipulation of young minds, and you processed none of that? You didn’t comment on any of that. Why is that? Is it “too controversial?” I think that’s pretty instructive right there. At least to me it is.

            You may have provided this commbox group of commenters with a prime example of a “drone-thinker.” With all due respect.

          • Michael Anderson (WB)

            My first comment was related to the manipulation of young minds in Common Core: “That’s all true…”.

            You completely ignored the fact that this particular example has nothing to do with Common Core, other than the original poster freaking out about it. We do a disservice when we label everything at public school a communist plot. It’s simple enough to find good examples of brain washing, but when we freak out about what is obviously not brain washing we destroy our message.

            Basically no lie is very good without some truth in it. This is one of the truths, and you have taken the bait that it provides. Freak out about what is truly brain washing and ignore the fluff. The fluff is there to paint you as a backwards, uneducated hillbilly, don’t let them define you.

          • Mark_Trail

            Look at the work sheet shown in the picture. It says:
            NYS COMMON CORE MATHEMATICS CURRICULUM

          • Michael Anderson (WB)

            Common Core is about indoctrinating our kids. In that respect teaching a principle of mathematics that has been taught for decades has nothing to do with Common Core’s purpose, other than to smooth over the great lie with some truth and to draw out those who will freak out about the words “Common Core”, not the goal of Common Core.

          • Mark_Trail

            The connection between Common Core and mind control is established when you downgrade kids for not using the more complicated (and thus common controlled) method of calculating math problems. Math is objective until it gets to math theory. Making all of math “theory-dependent” from the start (4th Grade), is an excellent way to get kids to think “All truth is relative.”

      • Jeff

        Building higher level thinking from an early age better prepares them for algebraic thinking later on.

        • Mark_Trail

          The Utopian Paradise you are imagineering doesn’t exist. Some kids will do great learning math this “new way” (it’s ALL new to a new person). Some won’t. Those who won’t will be left behind. Not all kids learn the same way at the same speed, but learning the basic math skills is something that is simple enough that even the slowest students can learn. It’s almost like bullying in a way to make the slow kids stay up with the fast ones by making at ever more accelerated pace ever sooner in the learning years.

          I don’t see life like you do. You must think everyone who enters Boot Camp will come out with 4.0 marks in all the skills and drills. It doesn’t work that way, never did, never will. The worst part is when they just Santa Claus the slow learners on through the grades, and even send them to college on a hardship case or affirmative action scenario. And they fail. Thomas Sowell, noted educator, writes about his stuff being bad for kids all the time.

    • Jeff

      Agreed. I would add that starting kids with an understanding of composition / decomposition of number is what ultimately leads to better retention and more effective memorization of math facts. The relationship between addition / subtraction, understanding that multiplication is repeated addition, the relationship between multiplication and division, and so on.

  • allisonambrosio

    All this does is let the kids that cant grasp math move thru math and not be forced to actually learn. God forbid kids are told they arent doing well and they have to get help or repeat something. In my day you repeated classes if you didnt learn the material. Now it doesnt seem to matter.

  • Henry Sheldon

    What ever happened to readin’ ritin’ & ‘ritmatic, otherwise known as The Three R’s???
    It is no wonder our kids are falling behind the rest of the known world; the gubment schools are useless and getting worse.

  • Mackie

    Barely one percent of the federal budget goes toward threw K1 thru 12 . We need to get the federal government out of our public schools and return them to local jurisdictions. We also need to work to create more Charter schools in America.

  • James Bishop

    This is a superfluous method; the PhDs and Accountants (TM) in the audience here need to stop defending this method.
    Some things are learned by breaking and distributing with math, but at this level, this is not the case.
    Kids need to learn the value of 7 added to the value of 7 simply equals 14. These are not large unwieldy numbers. This is simple single place addition!
    There should be no need to break numbers, or create the whole number bond BS nomenclature. Who is the absolute fucktard who came up with that shit?
    I think its time we should start rolling some Schoolhouse Rock again like spam instead of the GARBAGE kids get subjected to now between shows. No more sparkly vampires and half-human mutant MyLittlePonies people.
    As an adult if you do this in your head: BRAVO. You are *supposed* to be able to do this in your head by now, so your opinion means nuts.

  • Fed Up

    Here’s a number for all the libs & progs who are pushing this crap to ponder: $17,000,000,000,000

    • MILEXIT!™

      Can we number bond that somehow and just say it is equal to 4.2% unemployment?

      • Fed Up

        Or we can just say it doesn’t matter. That has a history of working well.

    • Snap N McGarrett

      At this point, what difference does it make? ~HRC

      • Snap N McGarrett

        Translated: We screwed you and there’s nothing you can do about it.

  • JPeden

    Fourth grade? That’s not even third grade.

    • Jeff

      Whoever claimed that this is fourth grade is incorrect, at least in terms of what is in the standards by grade level. In Kindergarten, children must be able to compose / decompose numbers to 19, and in grade 1 students must be able to add / subtract within 100.

  • deanothewiseman

    I don’t like common core, but that’s exactly how I do math in my head. However, those aren’t great written directions, although I’m sure some context around “number bonds” would be helpful.

  • dave c

    I went to underprivileged and underfunded minority schools in east Austin. Neither myself nor my classmates needed tricks to do simple addition in the second grade. If they are still teaching it in the fourth it’s a problem with the curriculum or the teachers. All kids need is the concept of the value of an integer and a number line. Trying to simplify it further does not help them. It tells them they are not expected to actually think.

  • mustangsx3

    But wait! She is nine years old. That means she is in 4th grade. God help her if she can’t add 7+7 without this nonsense by 4th grade!!

    • MILEXIT!™

      Yes, but she has a promising career doing mathematical projections with the Department of Labor.

      • D. Lenore Hutchens

        You have a good point. The plan is everyone will work for the “government”, doing the job they choose.

    • Sylow59

      They’re teaching the concept.

      • mustangsx3

        Yes, a 1st grade concept.

  • Jodi Hunt Maddocks

    just to add to this, why couldn’t we say 7 is 3 away from 10 and when you have 7 + 7 = ? Well, rounding up to 10 + 10 = 20 and than take away the 3 x 2 = 6….so, 20-6=14!!! THERE! Rounding up seems so much easier!! (KIDDING!!!) This is stupid. Kids should understand math in 10’s but this CC way seems like so much work! Kinda like my fictitious rounding up way!!!

  • SpencerChaffin

    I learned a lot of basic math before the first grade [ 5 years old ] in the cotton field. The pay for cotton picking in 1942 was 1.25 dollars per hundred pounds. Mother explained that was 1 and one quarter cent per pound, and 10 pounds would be a dime and two pennies, and there was no half penny. She explained the half penny could be carried over to the next weigh up and then for 10 pounds I would get a dime and three pennies, then I would have 25 cents, that I could trade for a quarter [ or one fourth of a dollar ] . Then she explained if I would pick 40 pounds I would get 50 cents or one half of a dollar. The next day I had a little sack to pick my own cotton into, thinking I would get rich and not have to go to school. I soon learned how to calculate how much I would get if I happened to pick 17 pounds at a weigh up. I did not get rich, but I do not need a calculator, even to do square root problems. I do use a pencil and paper to calculate square root and cube root problems if over three digits though.

  • PokeyBug

    Lol, I homeschool, and the math program uses similar directions. I’ve tried teaching without prepared worksheets, but it is extremely time-consuming to make your own. So, I don’t mess with the confusing directions and just teach in the simplest way. I end up crossing out part of the worksheet, lol, but I’ll bet my kids arrive at the right answer much more quickly. *shrug*

  • HARP2

    Hopefully none of these kids will end up working at NASA.

  • RaymondBenne

    the main problem with this kind of math is, while they will pass the test the will not be able to make change at McDonalds, which will be there only potential employer

  • HARP2

    Oh well…….at least these kids will know how to put a condom on.

  • marg

    Gee, such interesting use of the English language……not very well educated herself I’d say…..

  • Spongeworthy_Bob

    Idiocracy wasn’t a comedy film as much as it was a prophecy.

  • mike1jeremie

    Let me explain. Number bonds are what I call relations. In this case 7 is made up of 3 and 4. The 3 added to the 7 makes 10. 10 and the leftover 4 can be added to make the 14 just by replacing the 0 with the four. Yes I know this is a simple set of numbers but when this method is used for larger numbers it means you have less to memorize and you begin to understand counts rather than just symbolic numbers. It means 7 really means 7 units and you can see this no matter how you write it. 7 = 6+1 = 5+2 = 4+3. Why limit our kids to thinking 7 only means 7. I may not agree with much of the common core but please at least find a real issue to complain about. This is one of the good things about it. Teaching our kids what number really are is long past due.

    • JBDestiny

      Thanks for explaining it in a way any NINE YEAR OLD can understand, Einstein.

      Even back in my day, Tom Lehrer (hardly a simpleton) was making fun of new math in song. You don’t teach advanced concepts until students have mastered the basics.

      • mike1jeremie

        Well given most of the complaints were about adults (i.e. people over 8) could not understand the instructions why is my comment about what the papers is really about some bad thing?

        • JBDestiny

          (Papers?)

          Why is your explanation silly? Here’s just a few reasons:

          1. When 9-year-olds don’t understand their work, they ask a parent or older sibling to help them. Pre-Common Core, parents and siblings were fully capable of doing so. Now? Nope. Not unless we’re all going back to school to figure out the new instructions. Not to learn math, mind you; to learn new methods that are far more tedious and frankly, irrelevant (see #2).

          2. Unless you are going to use advanced mathematics, which is reserved for higher sciences and theoretics, there is no need, as you put it, to look at numbers as “units.” Those who require the advanced math learn it when it becomes relevant. Everyone else does fine without it.

          3. Any structure needs a solid foundation. If the kids aren’t learning basic math, then advanced concepts will not take either.

          • HJD

            We all need to learn how to look at numbers as units, just think 17 trillion units. Yes, kids need to learn both the basics and some advanced. Most of the kids have been on Everyday Math and that is a terrible program of instruction. The kids get bounced around so much from one math concept to the next, they never get their basics. I hope whatever program they use now, they will spend more time on the saturation of the basics.

          • JBDestiny

            Oh, I’m sure this will catch on as well as all the other New Math curricula that progressives and other smarter-than-thou folks have assured us for decades are “needed.” None of which have ever had respect for fundamentals, so you can stop hoping for that saturation of the basics. Out of curiosity, how often have you used “zed” in your everyday life?

          • HJD

            I’m not sure what you mean by ‘zed’, but I do believe teachers are finally seeing we need to go back to the basics, progressives’ wishes be damned!

          • JBDestiny

            Teachers, yes. Progressives, no. And they’re behind the implementation of Common Core. So I don’t know why you’re celebrating.

          • HJD

            I’m not celebrating Common Core. I’m celebrating some teachers championing the basics for their students once again. Yes, perhaps we’ve come full circle, and no doubt, will repeat the circle over and over again.

          • JBDestiny

            Reviewing your replies, I can see that you don’t understand the concept of “numbers are symbols.”

            It’s not “Think 17 trillion units.” It’s “we have to calculate in base 17 trillion, so to make it easy, the straight vertical line, or ‘1’ will stand for a single unit of ’17 trillion.” Then 1+2=3 results in 51 trillion in base 10.”

            Zed is a symbol used in calculations higher than base 10 to stand in for what in base 10 is represented by 12 I believe.

          • HJD

            as you can see, I’m stickin’ with the basics. Thanks for your info.

          • mike1jeremie

            From you comment I see 1. The parents never learned how to understand numbers so we need to teach the kids the same way so the parents don’t feel bad. 2. Keep the kids dumb because most of them will never do more than a checkbook and they can use their fingers for that. 3. Only teach them the symbols and then call that the basics because actually teaching the numbers it too hard.

            This is basic math. In fact it is the very foundation of understanding what a number is. All the kids have been taught is to move symbols around until they get a smile from an adult. They never learn how to use numbers.

            So why are you so against our schools teaching our kids what numbers really are?

          • JBDestiny

            Why are you against parents helping their kids learn the day’s lessons? Are you seriously declaring that no prior generation ever learned 7+7=14 or 7+7=10+4 or even 7+7=10+4=20-6; they only think they did? And so all they can do is count on their fingers, poor dears.

            “The point is to understand what it is that you’re doing, and not necessarily to get the right answer.” I’d hate to be in a building put up with that assumption, regardless of the state of my checkbook. Or doesn’t that scare you?

          • mike1jeremie

            Most people trained by our school system know “7”+”7″=”14″ What most people do not know is what “7” really is. No I am not against parents helping their kids. I just don’t think the lessons should be dumbed down just to be sure the parents can. And so that last sentence is NOT mine so why try to claim it is? Like I said there is plenty wrong with the common core curriculum so it i snot helpful to trash something that is actually good about it. Doing so only makes those of us against the propaganda part look dumb.

            It is a good thing to not only teach our kids to memorized “7+7=14” but to also work through the numbers to know and understand what “7” really means and to be able to use their minds to deduce that “7” and “3+4” are the very same number. I am constantly having to teach my kids how to think about what they do rather than just putting down the answers the teachers tell them. The reason we have the nitwits in Washington right now is because so many generations have not been taught and forced to think.

    • BO_stinks

      having a central big brother do it is ridiculous. Give control to local schools, teachers already know how to teach.

    • HJD

      Couldn’t agree with you more! Now teachers should figure out the best way to teach this and do it, free of any government propaganda or pressure. We need to put the creativity back into the classroom.

      • JBDestiny

        Every new scheme in the past decades -from New Math to Whole Language to Common Core – has come out of the ivory tower and been forced on our students through mandates, local and otherwise.

        If this were the best way to teach math skills, teachers would have figured it out and done it on their own years ago. Like those young teachers a few years ago who discovered a more effective method than Whole Language to teach English, in long disused textbooks. It was called “Phonics.”

        • HJD

          So get rid of the ivory tower and let teachers teach.

          • JBDestiny

            AGREED.

            When do you think that will happen?

        • mike1jeremie

          Too often teachers just like most humans get into a rut and do not fully see when improvement is needed. So everything in education discovered years ago is still valid and no improvements are needed? Glad you don’t think that about our transportation of medicine. Like HJD states let the teachers/parents teach. That goes for those standing in the way of actually teaching basic number understanding.

          • JBDestiny

            Despite teachers not being involved in the development of Common Core, and the rising tide of teachers’ voices against it, and teachers themselves being told that a wrong answer is still right if the student understands the method he used to get the wrong number, you think this… fiasco… came from teachers?!

            I survived New Math in the 70s because my father, with a PhD in Engineering, taught me properly through homework help. Or as you would describe him, a person who stood in the way of using the hottest, newest methods of improving our students’ education in mathematics because he doesn’t understand what numbers are.

          • mike1jeremie

            I am also an engineer. Imagine that. Common core as a total package is broke but that does not mean every little thing about it is wrong. You seem to have a big hang up over new ways of doing things. New is not bad. Only bad is so don’t get confused. No I do not think your father was getting in the way of the new ways to learn unless what he taught you prevented you from understanding the lesson.

            Each student learns in a different way just like we each communicate in different ways. The problem with the old memorize to pass the test methods is that they do not really teach the subject. They only teach a method to fill in blanks on a test. For years this method has worked to get kids through school with passing grades but based on production in the US it has become clear it really was not working. The result can be seen in our economy and in our voting records. That means GOOD teachers are looking for ways to stimulate the kids minds so they learn to think. Good teachers are doing this in spite of the Common core and/or the rest of the big government mandated feel good curriculum. Thinking people take the good while dumping the bad. Why dump the good parts just because of the bad parts?

    • Zach Smith

      “7 = 6+1 = 5+2 = 4+3”
      This is simply part of the addition tables, right? Aren’t children generally taught how addition works with blocks or other tokens? Why a silly new terminology and inefficient way to do arithmetic?

      • mike1jeremie

        Most of the time they are not taught “how” it works but more they have memorized a pattern they repeat. 1+1=2, 2+2=4 etc. They can quote it back like a poem but they cannot understand it nor manipulate it. And this is not new nor is it silly. The great minds of history that figured out math used this method to figure it out.

    • Demoriot

      What you call relations we call factoring, but by 4th grade they should by rote memory know 3+4=7 and also 7+7=14 and also that our counting system is by 10’s. The problem here is the assumption that a 4th grader does not know the basics and needs to break down a 7, in order to add. If this was a factoring, pre-algebra lesson, explained as such, would be great.

      • mike1jeremie

        Yes the simple problems work great with the limited math tables kids memorize but if the kids can learn how the numbers work then they can tackle the bigger numbers they did not memorize and actually understand what is happening with the numbers.

    • Jeff

      Good lord, thank you. I’ve been wasting a lot of time trying to explain that point but you said it much better and more succinctly.

  • Viet Vet 67

    Lauren ROCKS!

  • Leilani Napp

    I get it but it doesn’t look to be easier. The number bonds would be 3 + 4 which equals 7. So instead of 7 + 7 + 14, it becomes 7 + 3 + 4 = 7 + 3 = 10 +4 ones = 14.

    • rainman

      Proof read your work, please. There are many errors. You fail.

    • HJD

      Leilani, I understood exactly what you were saying…

    • in_awe

      But how did you feel about your answer? And by getting an answer of 14 you dissed poor Billy over there who got 27 and is now feeling bad.

  • Gene

    Why would you expect to know what the directions are telling you to do if you were never taught that way? I would expect anyone who sat through this lesson on what’s called factoring to understand what to do.

    And the language used in the original post shows ignorance is not cause by the Common Core. It’s been here for awhile.

    I’ve never understood why so many conservatives are against the Common Core standards. They are just standards. Would you rather have the teachers (most of whom are very liberal) decide what to teach your children?

    • nickdqwk

      Political agenda injected into the curriculum, is where most of the angst is rooted.

    • Parsley

      Math is straightforward stuff, why all the f-ing nonsense?

      Conservatives are mainly against Common Core because it sucks the joy out of learning due to the enormous resources to teach this f**ckery as Lauren says. It is a waste of a student’s time to learn in this circular, nonsensical manner.

      There is also the matter of the massive network of consultants and text books publishers that get big $$$$$$$$$$$… which is essentially wasted on BS to waste the time of our kids.

      Lots to hate with Common Core.

    • LMW51

      Obviously you have been reading the liberal news media about Common Core opponents; every article leads with Conservatives being opposed and follows with “some liberals”. The truth is that PARENTS are up in arms about this; teachers are up in arms about this; even two members of the federal board that had input into the process are up in arms about it; and child psychologists are now weighing in on it and are opposing it.

      They are not “just standards”; it has been acknowledged that this is to build ” a global workforce”; that it will lead to data mining of all information regarding a child so that by middle school the government can push that child into a field it feels that child will be able to work in. In the case of Florida, the “standards” are lower than Florida’s standards as recently as 2008. When our child began high school (he’s a senior now) he was supposed to take a higher math senior year – now he’s been placed into a “college readiness class” that basically reviews his last three years…that course is a dumbed down course that will disqualify him for acceptance into major universities – and he was placed in there not because he had A’s and B’s in Algebra 1 and 2 and Geometry but because his most recent FCAT scores in math were in the “middle range” and not the “high”. He’s been on an engineering track all through high school and these new “standards” just set him back. A great many of the parents at his school thought their child would be taking a higher math this year only to find after school began that their child was placed into this “review” class instead. That class did not even exist as a choice two years ago.

      There is a lot of information out there about all who are standing up to oppose this backdoor takeover of our education system by the Feds – from the mistake ridden textbooks to the propaganda filled lessons. Do a bit of research and maybe you’ll understand why both Liberals and Conservatives are fighting this.

    • in_awe

      Those of us who have been around for more than a few years have seen this type of “new and improved methodology” and standards introduced every few years. Then it is discovered that kids have not learned the material any better than they did before and the next “new and improved” methodology is rolled out.

      The federal DOE and state DOE and textbook publishers are always all-in for these pedagogical changes, but all you need to do is look at student achievement scores over the past 40 years and see that they are worse then they have ever been. Then look at how much money has been diverted to create and roll out these “improved” programs.

      As noted elsewhere, the final straw is the politicization of American curricula at all levels. What was barely acceptable at the college level is absolutely unacceptable in K-12.

  • Jennifer Rufer

    My son failed the third grade because of this CRAP…He could do the old school way.. He is in the 6th grade, and can’t multiply… They don’t teach them to divide either, they teach them to multiply up to get the answer. It is BS…

    • Demoriot

      Unless your son has some dysfunction, why can’t he multiply in the 6th grade? You are ultimately responsible for his education and if what they were teaching in the 3rd grade didn’t work, why didn’t you drill the multiplication tables with him?

  • Parsley

    Lauren nailed it. Pure BS.

  • Donny Zunker

    Back in the early 60’s we had ‘New Math’ … I survived…

  • Margaret Manzi

    I see what they’re doing, but it’s still stupid.

  • Jon Avenarius

    I was home schooled most of my life. When I hit public school, I was immediately put in honor classes. Teachers even wanted to skip me up a grade. If I ever have kids, they aren’t going to public school, I promise you that.

  • nickdqwk

    Okay so John has 7 apples and Julie as 4 apples and 3 apples how many apples are there?

  • rickeyroma

    It doesn’t matter if your child gets the answer or not..only how he or she ‘feels’ about the answer…. LOL

  • Memphomaniac

    This is nothing but Re-Hash of 1960’s..”The New Math.” Parents became confused as they couldnt help their children SOLVE the basic math problems. I recall that a simple division problem would take 10 minutes to write. (Each Problem) I became frustrated, and my parents couldn’t understand why each simple problem couldn’t be done in about 30 seconds! My Dad asked: “Isn’t the goal to SOLVE the problem and to get the correct answer? My teacher, (next day,) replied: “No.” The goal is for you to understand the process. Keep in mind…this was 4th grade.. I knew then, that this was bullcrap. It still is. Nothing new under the sun, except now we have yet another way to fleece government. Never forget: “It’s for the children…”

    • sjvjeff

      Exactly.My parents couldn’t help me in school when this “New Math” garbage was being shoved down everybody’s throats.

  • rickeyroma

    Common core= dumbing down the population to make more democrat voters…

    They should have questions like,

    If it takes 2 hours to drive from one county to the next and the polls are open a total of 10 hours..how many counties can you vote in, in a presidential election?

  • LeftistsStink

    Make the simple complicated. It’s what “Progressives” do.

  • rickeyroma

    Common Core math:
    John is a wealthy business owner and has 200 employees. If the gov taxes John 50% of his earnings, how many months will it take before his employees are on unemployment?

    • Zach Smith

      John makes $120,000 per year and you make $32,000 per year. How much of John’s income do you deserve?

  • Sonia Davis-Thomas

    I’ve been saying this for the past couple years!! My son is in 5th grade and comes home clueless about how to do his math homework. He shows me how he is taught to do the problems but doesn’t really understand. I’ve had to teach him the old school way,where everything was simple and to the point…finally the kid gets it!!! Also had to have it out with his teacher about the way he gets his answers!! She insisted it was wrong,even though he had the right answer, simply because he didn’t use tally marks and k figures to find the lcd. It’s the dumbing of American kids. Parents, step in and save your children!!!

  • Mark Feemster

    It is easy to control stupid citizens.This is the goal of the modern democrat errrr communist party.

  • rickeyroma

    Common Core math:

    If your county has 75,400 registered voters and 88,000 vote for a democrat, how many lies will the media have to tell to blame the republicans for voter suppression?

    • helensimon

      True dat!

    • Carolyn#OYSD

      BEST example of Common Core EVAH!

  • favsis5bros

    I get why they want to teach alternatives to memorization, even if it seems more time consuming and complicated to most of us. Right now, though, I am more concerned about what Common Core is teaching in History, Civics, and Health classes!

  • jo_ella

    This is asinine, why add another step when ONLY adding 2 numbers together?? Who is the idiot that came up with that? The original problem is 7+7…..Why do the liberals insist on dumbing down America? We will not be able to compete globally in just a few more years unless we stop the insanity of the liberals!

  • destrecht

    I’ve had a few times that we just had to guess what they were asking with my third grade daughter’s cc math. “you have 3 widgets. small is $5, medium is $6, and large is $7. If you’re out of the small, how many of the large and medium do you need to sell to make $100?” Ok, there are a huge number of answers. 17 medium and 0 large, 0 Medium and 15 large, and several other answers. This is 3rd grade math. There should be one answer. I’ve seen a few of them. It adds another 20 minutes to their homework as the adults are trying to figure this out.

  • SourPea

    Confusion caused by lack of education in 50 years of progressive education/nihilism. The educators don’t have any ability to teach/communicate.

    • LMW51

      They have the ability; they are being hamstrung by a government that is bribing their state education boards with federal funds to buy into Bill Gates Foundation “curriculum”. They are creating “a global workforce” of unquestioning slaves to big business and government.

  • CLEmom

    I got ADHD from reading those directions.

  • Pamela Ja

    Yea, I have taken several college math courses and when my 5th grader brings his math homework home it makes no sense how they want him to do it. When he was in 2nd grade he was doing college algebra and now they have him so confused he doesn’t know what he’s doing.

  • Kerry Lundy

    People keep saying we must get away from memorizing i.e. multiplication tables etc but even if you get the correct answer but you did not remember (memorize) step 5 your answer is marked wrong. I thought this was to get us away from memorization. Sounds more like protecting some PHD’s job to me and eliminating the parent from the teaching/learning process. By the time I was in the 4th grade I was already doing long addition, division,multiplication and word problems and didn’t need multiple steps to reach the answer. Today as a senior citizen it amazes me how many young people can’t do simple math without a calculator. You make a 78 cent purchase hand a clerk $5 bill and if the cash register does not have a built in calculator it him/her forever to determine you are to be given $4.22 in change. We continue to ask why we are lagging behind the rest of the world in education. The majority of our children are compelled to attend public schools where true educators and parents are not allowed to teach their children but are required to indoctrinate them. The first step is to bring back the basic 3R’s Reading,Riting and Rithmetic. Get the calculators out of the classrooms,require books to be read and reports on the be written. Sports are extra caricular activities not the most important thing at school. Encourage students to seek help from other s in the class. Sometimes a fellow student can turn on the switch that a teacher can’t seem to find within a given student. Make learning fun but maintain order in the classroom. My teachers in the 50s and 60s did if government and unions would get out of the way our teachers today could too.

  • 20670

    So according to common core standards if you are adding 6+6=12 you need to show skip counting? 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1=12. Did I get that right? What happens when adding decimals? My head is hurting. Time for a 7+3+4 mg Prozac.

  • pjf

    C’mon folks, this isn’t that hard. And see how simple and useful the technique is. Dare I say even intuitive. Sure, it’s kind of a hard way to add 7 and 7, but…Take 842 + 679 for example: If you know that 679 is nothing more that 158 “number bonded” with 521, and 842 plus 158 is 1000, then the answer is obvious. 1000 + 521 = 1521. Way more simple than “2+9 is 1, carry the 1 and so on”.

    • Demoriot

      Actually, understanding 1, 10 and 100 places, in my head I reverse what I would do on paper, carrying over and begin by adding 100s. 800 + 600 = 1400, 40 + 70 = 110 and 2+ 9 = 11, then add those. The key thing is that I learned 40 years ago what 8 + 6, 4 + 7 and 2 + 9 are.

      I would not press my obscure way on how I think this upon a young child, though, until they already learned basic addition and also how to add by columns, what I mean by 1, 10 and 100 place and how to work it out on paper, carrying the 1, in correct order from right to left.

  • Mac

    Elementary algebra was no problem for my 5 year old to grasp… she’s 30, college grad, conservative mgmnt now… DUH!!!

  • Keith Clark

    Oh, God — this is new math all over again.

  • Karen Lamoreaux

    Join Parents and Educators Against Common Core on FB and Join your local state coalition! :)

  • BoscoBolt

    7 + 3 + 4 = “barack hussein obama, mmm, mmm, mmm”

  • porgiefirefighter

    Sounds like they are trying to change fundamental nomenclature by introducing unfamiliar, esoteric terms like “skip count”, “number bonds”, “making ten” and “adding to the ones”..If they are changing the nomenclature, it is obviously unnecessary and will certainly drive some people, especially parents of the students, to ferret out the motivation for the change. Ferret away!

    • AMSilver

      And I was just about to start ferretting, but now I can say you asked for it! Hehheheh…

      Alright, so what we have is basic math being totally renovated at a young age. Sure, the students may be picking up some of this, but the parents aren’t going to get it because the parents were taught a different method when they were in school, and even if they understand the concepts here, the language is going to throw them off.

      Given that not all children learn at the same rate, some children are going to go home at the end of the day and need their parent’s help to gain a full understanding of the subject matter that was covered in class. If the teaching method is sufficiently similar to what the parents learned during their time in school, then the parents can sit down with their child and help them with a fair amount of ease. By changing techniques altogether, the teachers are going to limit the pool of parents who can successfully help their child learn the material. This (intended or not) decreases the child’s perception of parental authority (my dad can’t even do 5th grade math) and increases the perception of school (government) authority (my teacher must clearly be smarter than my parents). When the school teaches a new technique – and then introduces new terminology phrased in a way that is not a clear explanation of what is being done in the problem, the pool of parents who can help their children shrinks even further. The parent becomes effectively shut out of the education process.

      Children whose parents can help them master the subject matter have an advantage in learning. Changing the subject matter – or at least the way it is presented – enough to prevent the parent from helping their child levels the playing field by putting all students on the same level as children whose parents are not available or not interested in helping them.

      • MominMich

        You NAILED it!

        • AMSilver

          Somehow, all the things I’m nailing lately either scare me or make me sad. Happy to be nailing things, but couldn’t it be happy things?

      • porgiefirefighter

        Good catch! One of most subtle and insidious techniques of the left is to drive a wedge between parents and their children, and between parents and the education system. It’s most obvious in teaching about the “environment”. Enlightened children must save the world that their idiot parents have nearly ruined! Could driving a wedge between parents and children also be on the common core agenda? Don’t doubt it.

      • beyond partisan

        Wow…that totally makes sense. Quite insidious too!

  • Scott McCay

    No wonder kids can’t even spell after graduation. Obummer’s suggestion: “smoke dope, drink yourself into a stuper, smoke cigs and do your homework” I heard it’s called the “new math”

  • AlmostaCowboy

    I would say that these “concerned parents” have more to be worried about than common core, judging by their language. Speaking of which, I’ve reached my limit with Twitchie posting such vulgarity. Shame on you, Michelle.

    • MominMich

      I think we should be concerned about BOTH vulgarity AND Common Core.

  • Mike

    That fact that most people don’t understand this is more depressing. The fact that most people are agreeing with someone complaining on Twitter who’s name is “hollaAtMe_Baby” is sad.

    • in_awe

      I see your point, but it seems that the “old method” of teaching – by that I mean that used 1940’s-1960’s seemed to generate a large number of creative, bright and successful people. A couple examples come to mind when I think about math are those folks who designed aircraft and space vehicles like the SR-71 and Apollo using simple tools like slide rulers and pencils and paper. Is it possible that some rote memorization of basic facts actually lifts more kids’ skills than trying to teach everyone how to logically “understand” every single detail?

      • Mike

        I agree with that statement. But the fact is that we haven’t taught kids to do math without electronics for years now. As people have stated below most people in the younger generations are so inept at math and dependent on calculators that they can’t even count back change, they just give you what the register tells them. Memorization of basic math facts is certainly essential, but isn’t critical thought and understanding of number relations also a good thing? When I go over my sons homework with him I was already doing similar things to what is showed in the CC question referenced above. Solve for x, what is another way to write the equation, what is another way to find the answer. etc etc.

        Part of the problem I think people have with this new method is that they themselves don’t understand different components of math. It’s just add, subtract, multiply, divide. Memorize this or that. Memorize your times tables..perfect, it good to be able to recall that kind of information quickly. The engineering team at skunk works who designed the blackbird didn’t rely on memorization, they had to think critically and use there understanding of complex principles in math, Figure out how to the stresses on the wings of a SR-71 at mach 1,5? memorization is not going to help. Start earlier and they may be able to learn those more advanced principles easier by understanding what every single detail is, Maybe.

        • Zach Smith

          This is semi-algebra with cute terminology. They would be better off just learning the arithmetic and moving on to real algebra.

          • Mike

            And as we and the world looks down on us in our placement in education we should just keep trotting along not trying to improve? What is wrong with starting kids off with something more complex to make what comes next easier? And possibly sooner so they can do even more advanced math? Everyone complains about how they hate algebra etc…when am I every going to use this? They say….Well if they learn it early enough and do not struggle with it, get through the real thing quicker and easier, and have all the details explained to them then maybe we start filling engineering jobs without using the H1B visas.

          • in_awe

            I would love it if that would actually produce those results. Let’s try it first on a large scale (smaller than the entire nation but larger than a few hundred students). But that is not how things are done. No recognition is given to under what circumstances it will work or not work – it one way for everyone.

            There are GOVERNMENT studies that show Head Start fails to produce a lasting academic lift for the kids enrolled in it. The benefit is gone by 3rd grade. Yet, this government is determined to make it mandatory across the nation at tremendous cost despite decades of evidence showing it fails. Arrghh!

            As a nation we also must get over the “not invented here” syndrome and be open to methods used abroad that might work here, too.

          • Zach Smith

            Engineers and scientists use mathematics. That seldom requires arithmetic. We leave that for the computers.

            If you want to get students into mathematics: algebra, trigonometry, calculus; you spend only enough time on arithmetic to teach them how to get the right answers. Once they start learning algebra, how all these little tricks work will become quite obvious to them.

        • in_awe

          I did the same thing in the 90’s with my daughter. She hated the fact that she got more “lessons” at home, but she graduated near the top of her class in HS and college and is now earning an amazing amount of money in her career.

          My concern is for the masses of kids who do not have parents like us with the skills, time and interest in spending that time with them. I doubt that most kids will benefit more from learning math reasoning skills than from simply being able to add and subtract without an electronic gadget in their hand. So, if the “reasoning” approach doesn’t click with a kid and they also haven’t memorized facts, then where are they?

          My wife was a primary education and math major in college who went on to teach elementary school and I took many courses in math, statistics and operations research in undergraduate and graduate school. So, I understand the value of being able to “reason” mathematically. After 3 decades of being a manager I know that a lot of people really don’t care about that ability or frankly have the mental capacity to do it, but can competently do tasks by rote using basic skill sets.

          Not everyone is college material – we should recognize that and provide skills by the end of high school that will allow them to succeed in life. As a society we would be better off if we focused on that for everyone, and provided additional training and education for those interested in getting to the next level of understanding. In 4th grade I asked my teacher to help me learn algebra, and we would spend hours after school doing that. Math clubs would provide the same opportunity. But for every one of me, there are hundreds of kids getting out of school without the ability to do anything beyond pushing a broom or flipping burgers as a terminal position.

          Perhaps we should view K-12 as a set of tiers where the lower tiers are about learning basic facts and memorizing important knowledge and only introduce reasoning skills selectively as they progress. This way everyone gets the core knowledge they will need.

          This is a very complex topic not well suited to exchanges online via Disqus. Just once I would love to see things like Common Core subjected to challenges before it becomes a national law imposed upon all schools and students without the benefit of a champion-challenger type multi-year pilot run in a wide variety of environments. I also would like a lengthy public discussion of the methods used in the nations that show higher student achievement at substantially lower costs per student.

  • Andy Trimble

    I’ll play devil’s advocate and suggest that they think they are teaching kids HOW to think.

    Problem is, they’re teaching kids HOW to think, “what the fuck IS this???”

  • Tia Wind

    My boys are in 7th grade and are using ‘counters’ to add/subtract and work with partners on this nonsense. I also found some lessons on sequencing. You know: 5, 10, 15, 20….. figure out the next 5 numbers by adding the right number. I felt dumber after I read some of their lessons.

    • http://www.chaosandcritters.com Ella Halligan

      Partners and counters for simple math in the 7th grade??? Holy cow. I’m so glad we homeschool.

  • AtomicMountain

    Four?

  • JustJessiD

    Im just curious as to how many people on here defending Common Core, actually have school aged children,..?? just wondering,…

    • gunnyjeep

      I am thankful that both of my boys are now out of high school, but I in no way shape or form like this common core bs

  • Paige Jackson

    Good grief. My (homeschooled) fifth- and third-graders are doing pre-algebra. They thought this CC crap looked absurd, largely because they’re also studying critical thinking.

    • http://www.chaosandcritters.com Ella Halligan

      Same here… my homeschooled 4 year old preschooler can answer 7+7=14 without having to regroup AND can use manipulatives (he particularly likes Skittles) to demonstrate WHY it is the correct answer. Montessori had this figured out in the early 1900s… but for some reason we have to reinvent the wheel?

      • Ricard

        Montessori is great for the basics, however (per our experience) the school will eventually (say at Algebra) need to go outside of their standard Montessori concept.

  • 16HellCat

    They are dumbing down kids to control them better in greater populations. Marxism.

  • Guest

    This is Democrat math:) But really all it is giving the answer to the stupid kids in class so they don’t feel like idiots. If you ask a little kid what 7+7 is, they have to think and maybe use their fingers to figure it out. It is much easier for any child to figure out 10+4=14. So smart kids knows answer and puts down 14. Dumb kids finally answers 14 after you make it easier for them but they stay dumb for the rest of their lives. Hence it is Democrat math:) Future Voters of the Democratic Party! But the kids will feel better about themselves in the process but still be morons!

  • digitalPimple

    LOL. Common core. You can put all this into a book all you want… If the kids aren’t interested, do not have a good environment to learn, a talented teacher or the basic desire it will make no difference at all. Just more of the same “fixes” that will waste more time, cause more confusion and accomplish absolutely nothing.

    Kids learn math in many different ways. They understand it in many different ways. Maybe this may help some but others it will confuse or it will further add to their confusion. This is why you need a good teacher to guide each student in the ways they individually work to accomplish the goal.

  • Dexter Alarius

    Thanks to Paul Lehrer:

    Consider the following subtraction problem, which I will put up here: 342 –

    173.

    Now remember how we used to do that. three from two is nine; carry the one, and

    if you’re under 35 or went to a private school you say seven from three is six,

    but if you’re over 35 and went to a public school you say eight from four is

    six; carry the one so we have 169, but in the new approach, as you know, the

    important thing is to understand what you’re doing rather than to get the right

    answer. Here’s how they do it now.

    You can’t take three from two,

    Two is less than three,

    So you look at the four in the tens place.

    Now that’s really four tens,

    So you make it three tens,

    Regroup, and you change a ten to ten ones,

    And you add them to the two and get twelve,

    And you take away three, that’s nine.

    Is that clear?

    Now instead of four in the tens place

    You’ve got three,

    ‘Cause you added one,

    That is to say, ten, to the two,

    But you can’t take seven from three,

    So you look in the hundreds place.

    From the three you then use one

    To make ten ones…

    (And you know why four plus minus one

    Plus ten is fourteen minus one?

    ‘Cause addition is commutative, right.)

    And so you have thirteen tens,

    And you take away seven,

    And that leaves five…

    Well, six actually.

    But the idea is the important thing.

    Now go back to the hundreds place,

    And you’re left with two.

    And you take away one from two,

    And that leaves…?

    Everybody get one?

    Not bad for the first day!

    Hooray for new math,

    New-hoo-hoo-math,

    It won’t do you a bit of good to review math.

    It’s so simple,

    So very simple,

    That only a child can do it!

    • http://www.chaosandcritters.com Ella Halligan

      Yeah, that’s right up there with “front end estimation”… when I showed my 17 year old a worksheet a friend showed me where they claimed that you should round 299 to 200 instead of 300 he looked at me, cocked an eyebrow, and said, “This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen”….. sadly, he now realizes that CC is so full of “dumb things” that he has already said that he won’t choose to marry any young lady who doesn’t agree that their children will be homeschooled.

      • in_awe

        The only caveat for that decision is that he must first limit the universe of candidate wives to those who themselves were home schooled. It appears that once someone has been “educated” in Common Core all bets are off on their ability to teach anyone anything.

    • richblade

      I find a simple base when doing quick math in my head. In this case 200 is the base I choose. I quickly know that 173 is 27 less than 200. I also know that difference between 342 and 200 is 142. So 142+27 = 169. I taught my son do math like this and his teachers didn’t like it. He can do quick math in his head faster, more accurately and with less work than any method they teach. They discounted his grades because he didn’t show the work so they ASSUMED he cheated. He probably has the best fundamental mathematics brain out of any young person I know.

    • Pamela A

      That’s just an explanation for borrowing. That’s not new, I learned that in the 80s.

    • Demoriot

      Regrouping is the same as borrowing and best explained as such.

  • Unknown User

    The number bond thing is a bastardized version of “Russian counting” that is normally used for MUCH larger numbers. The theory is 7+ 7 is really like 7+3+4= Since 10+4 is easier to figure out, do what you have to to get the number to 10, then add the rest.

    Some people do this “organically” like when trying to figure out tips it’s easier to do 10% and then add half more to get to 15% then to figure out 15% directly for some.

  • Trrffya

    Common Core is put together to dumb down our children and if your a parent and you haven’t objected to Common core , you are not a parent, your just an asshole!

  • cmerlo1

    I have no idea what a number bond is, but for some reason I excel in my job developing software and working on databases. 7 + 7 = 14; why complicate it with this crap?

  • Vicky Jackson

    I see the many faults of Common Core, but does Lauren have to use such language to point out the faults of Common Core?!!!

  • Susan Royston Fiori

    How about just fucking learning that 7+7=14?! WOW!
    there’s thought!

  • Jerry Miller

    My daughter is having a hard time adjusting to common core after I spent time teaching her how to solve a problem.Mine is a first grader already able to Multiply and divide let alone add and subtract.The way they have to find a simple answer is a joke.They are using Singapore math here at her school.

  • JustMyOpinion

    I do not support common core, and I don’t support the Dept of Education either, it should be abolished,, they have done nothing but indoctrinate the kids pushing their liberal agenda , not teaching them the tools they need in life to succeed.

    • Jeff

      Yup, nothing more lefty liberal than adding by making a 10. Commies.

  • radicallyalyssa

    I just did a paper for school – it was an email to my superintendent asking him to promote the removal of Common Core from Florida schools. I think once it’s graded, I’ll see about actually sending it.

  • GeneralObvious

    This is far from stupid or impractical. I’ve been doing math this way since I was in 3rd grade, when I figured it out on my own. This is a very efficient way of doing complicated math quickly in your head without the use of a calculator.

    For example if you want to calculate a 15% tip on your bill at a restaurant it’s much easier to figure out 10% of the bill, divide that by 2, then add the 2 totals together, than to calculate 15% in one shot.

    I think it’s great they are teaching these shortcuts to kids.

    • SmartJock33

      Funny. When I try and figure out 15% tip, I just go by how much the bill is by numbers of 10 dollars and multiply that number by 15%.

      50 dollars bill = 5 x 10. 5 x 15% = 7.50 dollars for tip. That’s just me.

  • Mike

    The tweeter as says later that “she doesn’t know how her sister gets it” So I guess the 9yr old understands it but this “Lauren. HollaAtMe_Baby. Smart Ass. Fuck You.- Instagram @QueenLauren Upstate New York” Is a good authority to judge these standards on. Look at her twitter profile, that where I pulled that description.

  • chundo

    Here’s the thing: I’m a parent who homeschools, and this math problem makes perfect sense to me. Because I was present for the rest of the lesson plan and therefore understand the terminology. “Number Bonds” is straight out of Singapore Math.

    If you didn’t already know 7 + 7 off the top of your head (yes, most of us do, but we’re talking about little kids who are just starting to learn these things), one possible strategy that can be used is to break down one of the sevens into smaller parts and then use “trading” to get to an equation that is easier to solve. Adding a number to 10 is easy, so you break down one of the sevens into 3 + 4 and then trade the three over to the seven to turn it into a 10 (7 + 7 = 10 + 4). Bonus: when they get into algebra and have to balance equations to solve for x, they’ll already be familiar with the concept. This worksheet is simply practicing that particular strategy; you’re not expected to do that every time you add numbers together.

    But I can see how a parent who is not familiar with Asian-style mathematics instruction and was not present when the teacher showed the children how to do this would be thrown off.

  • rae palmer

    As another homeschool mom, I agree that learning different techniques can help with different learning styles. Not all kids learn well the traditional way. However, while I think it’s helpful to let teachers show different methods to arrive at the same answer, I think it’s ridiculous to expect all kids to do their problems in that specific way or get the problem marked wrong, which is what happens in Common core. Kids who get the standard method are often confused at trying to figure problems this round about way. It would be far better for teachers to present different methods, and allow the kids to determine which is easier for them. As long as the get the right answer, it shouldn’t matter which method they use.

    • H50 ✓RAT

      I agree with; different students assimilate information in different ways, some are visual, some are logical thinkers, some are better by rote, etc.
      Seems to me tho that they are teaching in abstract ways that encourage using your fingers and toes here.
      You have to teach the basics in tandem with any other method IMHO, because very few are esoteric thinkers. Thats been my experience anyway.

  • Hank Devigne

    I’m wondering if this has anything to do with how Jaime Escalante taught his students, while aiming at Calculus. When kids bomb out from this, they are going to do it in a major way and they will be left feeling stupid. I know of what I speak.

    • therealguyfaux ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

      If you remember in the movie, there was this one kid who kept saying,”I’ll never get this stuff, I’ll never get this stuff,” and at the end of the picture, when they tell you how all the kids did– he still passed. He may not have “gotten it,” but he knew enough how to use it when it counted.

  • Guest

    Chundo: May you never be allowed to teach any children but your own. Rae Palmer: Any student having trouble with there addition tables, would be lost if forced to use this garbage. If in fact the above problem is real, and indicative of the course.

  • Patricia Stahl-Shopsky

    What??? Can you imagine in 10- 15 years having to work with these kids? I would never let my kid learn this crap. People, better start protesting. All this commiecore trash is, is a multi-billion dollar marketing program for bill gates and a data mining and tracking program for your kids for the government. Wake up people, protest this! GET RID OF IT NOW!!!

  • jeepch442

    Whatever happened to 10 + 4 = _____

  • Ted Cortez

    the instructions mean “make 10 by splitting 7 into 3 and 4, then add 10 to 4” but its less work to just count on your fingers, practice and memorize. thats like 3 problems in one. common core looks like it wants kids to hate math even more. makes sense since math is the number one enemy of liberals

  • neoface

    Again that’s just part of nanny government, cuddle children’s learning. Certain things you just have to memorize such as your alphabet, numbers 1-10, while learning adding what two numbers will always add to 10, two number add to 11, or 12 and so forth. We expect very little from our kids, most kids in Asian know their times table by end of first grade, in this country a lot of high school don’t know their times table by heart. Why? They are not expected or demanded to learn it, and they are given a courtesy pass yearly. There are a lot of functional illiterates adults in our society as result. I had to help an adult clerk with 50% off after seeing that he was struggling for an answer.

  • H50 ✓RAT

    The correct answer is obviously purple. DUH/
    Glad to see folks are waking up to the intentional dumbing down of or kids via Common Core. Its about damn time!

  • Pat Smith

    It looks like they are trying to teach the kids to “cipher” which is what my Father always did but I think it is going to be very hard to teach. I do it, too, but I wasn’t taught. I just use my basic math skills to do it.

    • rudimentalist

      That’s exactly the point I am trying to make in my comment a few minutes ago. We naturally begin developing our own rules and helps and shortcuts when working with numbers. Forcing one method, with rigidity, is of no value at all.

  • Vickie Bennett

    What they are asking her to is look for ways to make tens, in this case by taking apart 7 into 3+4. That gives her 10+4=14. I hate it too, and only know this because I homeschool my granddaughter. We do not do it this way, but I know she’ll need it if she ever takes their stupid tests. I teach it the right way, then try to expkain the drivel later.

  • Vickie Bennett

    Believe it or not, they think this easier!

  • HuandaRulz

    You need to take this in context, they like ignorant people cos is just easier to handle.

    • neoface

      That’s why regime changes are always book burning, and jail or killing off the educated event. That’s what the communist did in china 1950’s when they took over, most professor were killed or jailed(reprogramming-brain washing); the government also motified Chinese characters.

  • MikeM_inMD

    Really? Is it that hard for kids to learn the 100 ways to add two single digits (about half that once you learn the commutative rule)?

  • http://www.groovychristian.com/ Christopher Shaw

    So they’re learning about basic factoring and the associative property… but calling it “number bonds” and “skip-counting” …. SMH.

    • neoface

      Again another way to sell someone’s book. If you can convince enough people, then the school will buy it. A lot of schools are run by bunch of brain washed people who graduated from government run schools.

      • PNWShan

        And who have an inordinate faith in the next education fad. They jump from fad to fad like a frog hopping across a pond.

    • 97E

      The math works, but they’re dumbing it down to a pre-school level.

      FFS, by this kid’s age, I was already doing multiplication and division. It’s honestly quite frightening how bad education has gotten in the 30ish years since I was at that grade level.

      Also hey! First Cav!

      My great grandfather rode in the First Cavalry Regiment in WW1 France. On horseback.

  • ICOYAR

    Communist Core needs to be destroyed.

  • marcellucci

    This all was created so kids couldn’t negotiate contracts with their employers and would need to depend on unions to do it for them……

  • delroymonjo

    As if 4th graders aren’t confused enough already, what with the serious gender identity crisis they have come to realize as a 9 yr. old.

  • rudimentalist

    Sure miss the good old days when it was simply 7 + 7 = 14. I mean really, is that so difficult that you need that convoluted BS set of directions. Those kinds of connections are not necessarily the natural ones that each individual would come up with if just left alone to do the math. We all create short cuts and mnemonic helps of one sort or another. Common core is simply “Common Crap”.

  • Kabong30

    I actually get what they’re doing here and it’s how I do math when I have to work it on paper. 7+3=10 +4=14 Common Core sucks, but I’m not convinced this is one of the reasons.

    • Paige Jackson

      Agreed.

  • LegalizeShemp

    It’s a quick way to add numbers in your head, you split the second number into what you need to get to ten, then add what’s left over to get a quick answer. Or if you’re not a liberal moron, you simply remember that 7+7=14

  • LegalizeShemp

    And if you get an incorrect answer, you blame Bush and TEAbaggers for your failure, because they don’t want to raise taxes and pay teachers what they really deserve.

  • LegalizeShemp

    “Skip counting” is also the technique used by Democrats to tally votes in Republican districts.

  • Kirads09

    dumbed down populace easier to control and make totally dependent on government

  • Billy Wiggins

    I add like this all the time. 75+31 is easy for me to do as 75+25 =100 and then add in the leftover 6. Dad did it too.. many people do this. We always called it roundabout figurin. We never had a term for it.

  • Mark Gotham

    Hey, whatever works, I guess. But requiring kids to learn a certain way (such as this) is not fair. This method seems ridiculous to me, but if it helps some kids it’s worthwhile to teach it, as long as other methods are taught, too.

  • Wild Bill Kinda

    A page of questions like this could drive someone to commit an act of violence.

  • Bob Washburn

    Somehow I got thru grad school, starting with addition tables in first grade, sub in 2nd, mult in 3rd, div in 4th. Common Core is from Hell!

  • Mark R.R.Smith

    It seems that most of us were taught with “new math”. If I remember right you could round the 7 to 10 so 10 +10 – 6 =14 in “old math”. I taught myself old math and use it in my head sometimes. My only issue with elementary school was showing your work. The correct answer was not always good enough – you had to show your work on the paper. That was in the 60’s. The method of entering in a formula into a scientific calculator will be different than doing it into an excel spread sheet but the result will be the same and that is what is important – the correct answer.

    • Michael Anderson (WB)

      If this is how they are teaching basic addition there are two major problems:
      1. They’re teaching advanced methods as basics,
      2. They’re teaching the basics to 4th graders.

      If this is the method by which they are slowly introducing the concepts of algebra without calling it algebra, that’s great. Since this is how I was introduced to algebraic concepts prior to having it called algebra this explanation makes the most sense.

      • Jeff

        1. breaking apart numbers to make ten isn’t really advanced.
        2. That was my question with this whole thread, numbers 1-19 is Kindergarten in CCSS, and addition within 100 is a grade 1 standard, so I’m not sure why this is in a 4th grade assignment. I think it’s another example of something being taken out of context for the purpose of talking points.

        3. You are correct,the goal of the CCSS is developing algebraic thinking from an early age.

  • Gamal

    I had a PhD and I’d flunk this.

  • gold7406

    from the looks of this problem, the kids in ny would solve a problem by counting their fingers and then taking off their sneakers and proceed with their toes.

  • bossmanham

    BUY YOUR GOVERNMENT NUMBER BONDS!!!

    • Mark_Trail

      Except bonds (usury) is how we got shafted by the Banksters in the first place. “The Creature from Jekyll Island” was formed in 1913, when the Federal Reserve Bank was created, and we’ve been working for funny money ever since. With each Quantitative Easing that’s mandated by the Feds, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and the “money-by-daisy-chain-math ” rolls on and on towards that Fiscal Cliff.

      Rubber Money: We treat sex like money and money like sex. Sex is a medium of exchange and money somehow multiplies itself magically behind closed doors. Rubber Money. Until the rubber breaks.

  • FreetheBirds

    When I had a teaching job, I used Schoolhouse Rock DVDs to teach Grammar and History. My 5th graders aced the language portion of the Arizona state test. History wasn’t included. They were so far behind in math that skip counting was beyond them.
    This common core assignment is the “new” new math, and if you understand what they are asking, it almost makes sense. But no one who hasn’t had this explained to them will get it. The whole new concept of “decomposing” numbers is not natural thinking to any student I’ve had in 20 years.
    A few years ago, math curricula started trying to introduce different ways of calculating to lower grades because people naturally calculate in a number of ways. (Using pictures, objects, or memorized facts) Then they decided that all students needed to master all the different ways to calculate instead of letting kids figure out what is best for them. Cookie Cutter education! Get your kids out!

    • T-Bone

      5 fingers on each hand, then go to toes.

    • Paige Jackson

      Seriously: Homeschool. If the idea of taking responsibility for your kids’ education scares you, consider this: You are ALREADY responsible; what you now lack is control over what they’re taught and how. Outsourcing education to union-dominated berks in a failing behemoth of a system doesn’t let parents off the hook–it just ensures a crappy outcome in most cases.

  • agreatamerican

    I retired from teaching math strictly to this BS the kids aren’t learning as it is reasoning problems. Reasoning my ass no wonder the Asains are taking over.

    • Jeff

      So your argument is that the CCSS are inferior to the way asians learn math? If so, it would interest you to know that the CCSSM were modeled in part by the math syllabi of Singapore, Hong Kong, and Korea.

      • Nannette McGowan

        So are you saying they took the most useless parts of the Asian math syllabi, applied it to CCSSM to confuse our kids and left out common sense basic math that has worked for hundreds of years. There’s a reason why the U.S. has been falling in math and science and it’s because it’s not being taught in a common sense way.

        • Jeff

          I don’t see how you gleaned that from my comment. “Agreatamerican” said “the asians are taking over”. My point was that it because the U.S. has been lagging behind for nearly twenty years that they took notice of high performing nations, like the “asians” that are “taking over”. It stands to reason that if we are concerned that certain nations are outperforming us (which was the implication that comment), that we should see what they are doing to outperform us. It is also important to note that the “basic math” you mentioned, by which I assume you mean the standards algortihms, are absolutely included the CCSS. Remember, the CCSS are guide for what children should learn and be able to do, but not HOW they are to be taught. That is still up to districts to determine through the resources they use. If you are interested in knowing what the standards are, you may want to go to corestandards.org. You will see that the only thing there is content and expectations, not methodology. I mentioned this in another post, but if parents have a concern about the WAY in which students are being taught, then it’s an issue to be brought to the attention of the district, but doesn’t come from the CCSS themselves.

  • SmartJock33

    That took a while for me to understand the concept behind it but I’m not sure if it is that effective. The problem with common core was that it was all designed in secret with no input from anyone.

  • Oneinformedvoter

    In the problem above, instead of having the kids memorize multiplying all single digit numbers, they have them break apart the digits that compose the number when added together ( I assume that is what number bond means) then match the numbers that add up to ten etc., etc. However, this adds two other steps to the process and will take longer. I cannot see how this will work efficiently when working with large numbers and complicated formulas. Liberals were complaining about memorizing, but they have to memorize to know that three and four will add up to seven. Also what if they chose two and five or one and six? I have seen other methods they use where the kids are counting on their fingers.
    Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!

  • randy meier

    America no longer produces- Quality anything, the education system was designed by liberal Demonic IDIOTS to yes, dumb our masses down even further , US is already ranked 37 in world for math reading and science , it’s about mind control, and producing cashiers and clerks, – so the DEMONIC LIBERALS stay in power- and control the hearts and minds of future generations

    • Nannette McGowan

      Producing cashiers and clerks who are paid $15 an hour without $15 worth of productivity. Then if the cash registers breaks down, they have to close the store because they not only can’t add the products by hand, they would have no idea how much change to give the customer. This is exactly what happened in my business and the employee was a school teacher working for me during her summer break.

  • Mark_Trail

    The connection between Common Core and mind control is established when you downgrade kids for not using the more complicated (and thus common controlled) method of calculating math problems. Math is objective until it gets to math theory. Making all of math “theory-dependent” from the start (4th Grade), is an excellent way to get kids to think “All truth is relative.”

    It doesn’t matter how you downgrade kids to control their minds, just as long as you downgrade and control. Calling them a backwoods hillbilly for not going through the math problem the “right” way (the more complicated way’) is the common method of downgrading (bullying) now.

    • rsabharw

      Even math theory is objective … numbers don’t lie.

      • Paige Jackson

        True, but when your worldview depends upon narrative rather than any concept of objective truth, sooner or later you find a way to bend even number theory to fit what you want.

  • dewman55

    1 Welfare female + 1 Disabled dude = 5 Democratic Voters on welfare (The number bond is 2 Moronic Adults have 3 Second Generation Welfare children.)

  • obammy

    That must be something a libby thought up to help us.

  • Jason Hunt

    I get it! It equals blue!

  • Evie Becker

    My niece called about a common core math problem for her son. I could not figure it out – I can add and subtract but the question asked the students to come up with their own problem that would require a calculator and then solve the problem – telling whether they used a pencil or a calculator. I have no idea what they wanted from the kid.

  • LegalizeShemp

    Yes study hard kids, do your homework, get good grades, go to college and find a great job that pays lots of money. All that so liberals can complain about your success, call your high income unfair, and take your money to hand out to the kids who didn’t study, didn’t do their homework, dropped out of school, had illegitimate children and sit home smoking pot and watching Gilligan’s Island on TV. That’s because liberals don’t “judge”, aren’t they just so compassionate?

  • http://steamcommunity.com/id/pwag42 Swagner

    I just showed this to my elementary school brother. And I quote: “What!?!”

  • Heather Peters

    Try teaching it. Ugh.

  • EclecticHorseman

    Math instruction for kids has declined significantly since the days of Tom Lehrer and his “New Math” (“It doesn’t matter what answer you get so long as you do the problem right”)

  • Kenny Zilla

    = Obama

  • lukuj

    I taught fourth grade. The math book tried to get me to teach this way. It didn’t work. I went back to the old way. Skip counting is an alternative to the good old times tables that tries to keep the little dears from having to actually memorize something, which isn’t always fun and easy for them.

  • George Bailey

    What diff. under common core there is no wrong answer.

    • Jeff

      Not true. One of the standards specifically states that students must “attend to precision”, which means getting the correct answer.

  • Rationalthinker

    I may actually understand what they are trying to do…say you have 17+19-12. You CAN ,in your mind think ” 20 minus 3, 20 minus 1 and minus 12 and then 24 comes up. It’s easier in your brain. lol I’ve been using that as a means in tallying up my grocery bill for years. But to TEACH it to 4th graders? Naaa.

  • Brad Donald

    We spent 3000+ years perfecting the educational process.

    Only for them to come along with this untested crap over the last 50 years and try to force it on us.

    Most of it seems like its intention is meant to make people dumber.

    • Raye09

      I am not into conspiracies all that much(I would say a mild conspiracy theorist), but it’s obvious the goal of all this was to make society stupider.

  • FirstBoot

    Go Lauren! Really, WTH is that?

  • Gordon W. Hard

    It’s 14, the fucking answr is 14, why not just leave it alone…..fuck……14 is the answer

    • chunky

      True.

  • Sorceress

    OMG That’s partly why my grandson just went on independent study. He is doing much better now and is able to get all his daily assignments finished by noon. Of course, this is California so I don’t know how long we can sustain home schooling without an inspection form the Department of Education, a cursory inspection by the department of safety to make sure we have smoke alarms, a visit by Child Protective Services to make sure we have a working toilet and other plumbing, etc., etc., etc……

  • Clorinda

    One of the things I discovered while teaching my oldest addition was the strange idea that the larger the numbers you are adding, the later the grade that it would be introduced in. I taught her addition and carrying. Once we got down that you carried to the next column, it didn’t matter whether the numbers being added were single digits or had 14 digits each. She got it. That was when I realized that math had been dumbed down in textbooks for quite a while. Why wait until 3rd grade to add 4 & 5 digit numbers? It isn’t any harder once you learn how to carry. So math education has been dumbing down for YEARS.

  • remmy

    7 + 7 = 10 + 4 = 12 + 2 = 5 + 9 = 8 + 6 = …what was the question?

  • http://www.facebook.com/aemoreira81 aemoreira81

    What are number bonds?

  • rlborde

    What ever happened to just memorizing addition and multiplication tables? Carry the excess of the “ones” into the tens column, and memorize the “times tables” up to 12 x 12. It worked for hundreds of years and put a man on the moon. Isn’t that good enough?

  • Don Wahl

    I had to teach this as a sub today to 2nd graders. It is all because kids are not being taught basic addition skills with flash cards, etc. Multiplication table memorization is an even worse situation. Some kids never learn them up and into high school.

  • Peculiar Person

    Hey [email protected],baby. You are profane. Clean it up.

    • Donabed C. Kopoian

      Don’t be a pussy.

  • Peculiar Person

    America gave the American Education system over to the secular humanists.
    And you thought there would be no consequences?

  • DLSliter

    “What happened to “3 fish, take away one, you have 2 fish”. Now it’s all this “3 fish, times the price of gas plus the square root of 4827″.”

    That is straight up awesome.

  • archer

    posting foul-mouthed semi-literate criticisms of common core isn’t really working. as bad as common core is, these tweets make it seem brilliant by comparison

  • aebe

    no such thing as School House Rock , growing up in the ’50’s-’60’s . But my daughter and I loved the show , and with her mom gone , we could sing along with it .
    That Common Cause ‘problem’ isn’t one , it is a deliberate confusion . Promoters of that program should be heartily tarred and feathered , set upon a splintery rail and run out of town .

    Validate your 2nd Amendment Rights . Carry

  • MelinTN

    I recall learning tricks for math… like to multiply by 9 you just take one less than the number, then it and the second number will equal 9… like 9×6… one less than 6 is 5. 5+4=9. So 6×9 = 54. But we never had this gobbldy-gook crap like “number bonds” and skip-counting”. Sheesh.

  • Bill Norris

    They removed common crap from Wylie isd in Texas last year

  • [email protected]

    dumbing everybody down. 7+7=14, no shit! 3+4+3+4=14, our country is so fucked!

  • Raye09

    I was subjected to “everyday math” in middle and high school(during it’s early days). I learned absolutely NOTHING except how to use a graphing calculator until my junior year when I switched back to the more traditional math courses my school offered(at the urging of my parents). I failed to learn the basics properly and had to re-teach myself during my pre-calculus class in junior year. Luckily I had a teacher that thought I had potential and referred me to tutors and was open to questions. I tested into Calculus during college and I am better now, but I am ashamed to admit that I didn’t understand basic algebra completely until I was 17. I could do all kinds of computer programming and troubleshooting but could not figure out how to solve a system of equations in a timely manner.

    There is no way in hell I would want another kid subjected to this, not ever. This is a disgrace and needs to be stopped.

    • Jeff

      You’ll be glad to know that due to the CCSS, many districts are moving away from Everyday Math, precisely because it doesn’t spend enough time in the basics.

      • Raye09

        Good to know, really this program was complete crap.

  • James Greer III

    The problem is that you are not seeing how this can be helpful to some children who have not memorized that 7+7 equals 14. It’s just “another way” to do a standard math problem. This particular problem and answer sequence is making your child smarter or including the tier II learners. Teaching is an art and usually the chisel is not as beautiful as the sculpture.

    • rickg62

      You are kidding, right?

      • James Greer III

        I know it has probably been a minute since you have done a math proof or any pre-algebra in a schoolhouse, but you have to remember that these things exist to facilitate all of the learning process.

        • rickg62

          Wrong, I work with our grandson on his math homework and play around with numbers and math for the fun of it. teaching math this way is backwards. You need to know the fundamentals before trying to take shortcuts. If you’re teaching addition like this, you have to introduce subtraction in order to breakdown 7 into 3 and 4. If this is homework for a 9 year old, that would probably be third or fourth grade. At this point they should know what 7 + 7 is anyway. Why re-teach it? Move on.

          If you want to read a good book on why our kids don’t compare well in math and reading with the rest of the world, try Amanda Ripley’s “The Smartest Kids In the World and how they got that way”.

          • James Greer III

            Well sonce you are at the very end of his homework I am sure you are in an excellent place to judge the overall plan. Research has shown that revisiting concepts at each grade level provides a better learning model than rote memorization and plowing theough constantly new material. It heavily involves a concept called “scaffolding.” I suggest you pick up a college teaching testbook filled with peer reviewed research an d familiarize yourself with current teaching concepts before you continue to bash their implementation.

          • rickg62

            Again, I refer you to Ripley’s book. She compares schools and methods in Korea, Finland and Poland, all who score higher than the US. These current teaching concepts that you are so enamored with are the reason we score so low. In these other countries, getting into teacher training universities rank on a par with elite colleges here. Unlike here, they only take the top tier of high school graduates and they learn whatever they will teach. Too much time here is wasted on learning new concepts all the time rather than actually knowing math, science, English, etc.

          • James Greer III

            Once again, I refer you to a vaunted college textbook. The problems with those tests is they produce students who can only take tests. The whole point of that math problem at that level is to reinforce math proofs. That book you are so enamored with is merely feeding your fears and expectations without looking at the peer reviewed research coming out of those countries, showing those test takers as worthless employees. If you look at those tests, btw, kids in Indiana in an active PE program out scored those vaunted Koreans. You need to check the rhetoric at the door and look at the research.

          • rickg62

            Wow, a “vaunted college textbook”. Pardon me while I quiver in awe. What do you think the main complaint here in the US is? The teachers complain that all they do is teach for the tests. You are totally wrong about those countries. What do you think fueled the resurgence in their economies? It was the change in their education system. They put in a more rigorous system and the results showed it. They also made the requirements more rigorous. The head of the Korean system admits that they are too far in the extreme in that they have to stop kids from studying all the time. If they make lousy employees, why did the company that supplies McDonalds with their desert pies go to Poland to open a factory? Here in the US she has trouble finding workers qualified to work the production line let alone anything technical.

            Your vaunted peer reviews to support the latest fads are done by the same people that have been the product of the failed system over the past 40+ years of making sure students feel good about themselves rather than being allowed to fail. The creators of Common Core have admitted that if you plan on taking calculus freshman year in college, then the CC standards won’t get you there. Obviously you haven’t read Ripley’s book. She doesn’t think any system is perfect, but she sees why these countries score higher on PISA exam than our kids do.

          • James Greer III

            Actually, now you are confusing economics with education. The reason McDonalds opened a factory in Poland is because it was cheaper. Korea is in the same economic situation… Their governments aren’t stifling growth. It also doesn’t hurt that they don’t have as much “organized labor unions” as well. Learning to operate machinery is a high school dropout level of certification. Look at the Army/ Navy… GED students operate highly technical heavy machinery in a matter of months. I am not defending Common Core… You have that mistaken, I am defending the problem as displayed. It is a standard example of a Math Proof that any child should be able to grasp at that level. As an indicator it can be helpful to the teacher to know if some students are missing the skills needed to develop into the new material slated later. You need to put out the fire in your panties for apes mashing everything “Common Core” blindly and assess if it is academically relevant. In this case it is relevant.

          • rickg62

            Maybe you try actually reading and comprehending what I said. You seem to be deficient in that area. I never said that McDonalds opened a factory there. I said that the company that sells McDonalds their desert pies, among other things, went there because the people were more technologically proficient. That was quoting her. You give yourself away with the mention of unions, also your ignorance. Trade unions are very prominent in Poland and have been since the early 1900’s. they even extend to farmers. You apparently forgot that it was the trade union protests that began the fall of the Polish Communist rule.

            You’re a few years behind the times as to operating modern machinery, especially in today’s production facilities. The company my wife works for is a case in point. They have robots designed to aid the manufacturing equipment, but many sit idle because they can’t find people capable of being trained to program them.

          • James Greer III

            And… your idiocy reveals itself further. You complain about a “weird, senseless” math problem, and then complain about not enough “smarts” for technical proficiency in America. The math problem presented is a math proof, a stepping stone to logic programming. If you were to go to those countries you so revere, you would see similar problems being taught. You either want your child to be able to do math, by doing math; or you want them to skim over math, and not have core concepts repeated to them.

          • rickg62

            We didn’t have math problems such as this when I was in school and gee I learned just fine. We actually learned the basics and then proceeded from there. The NY State Regents exams are recognized as some of the best in the country. They give it for 11th grade math which at the time was intermediate algebra and trig. I got 100 on it, so I think as did three others in my class, so I think we managed fine. Of course this was back before the teachers were so concerned about our feelings being hurt if we failed at something.

            How do you know what they’re taught in those other countries. One thing for sure, they are more rigorous than here. That’s been the response of the vast majority of US exchange students returning from abroad. This isn’t a “math proof”, which term you’re so fond of throwing around. This problem has ridiculous instruction with made-up term like number bonds and skip-counting. and the last words are gibberish. We figured this stuff out on our own after we developed the basics of knowing the answers. You do know that the creators of the Common Core standards have no math teaching backgrounds right?

            I see you abandoned the McDonalds argument.

          • James Greer III

            Considering I don’t want to have to explain simple economics to you involving labor forces and governmental regulations as the driving forces for business descisions no matter what cockamamie excuse the CEO tries to employ, I am glad you are at least aware of my steering us back to point. I am pretty sure your NY regents exam, when you took it, didn’t have to factor in the emergence of computer programming or the amount algebra and logic that would be needed for the 21st century, so your past successes, while bright have nothing to do with the price of tea in China. Today’s educators have to teach more than ever, I mean that exponentially, seeing as everything attached to computers doubles almost every year, and if they relied on 50 year old math programs to prepare students then we would still be trying to invent computers instead of programming for them. Number clumping is a perfectly legitimate mathematical exercise, and “counting by” or “skip counting” is as norminative as it comes. So, in defference to your elite scores on an ancient metric, I will tip my hat to you as the future changes the way children are taught so that they can fill the holes we can see now, but will only be inadequately preparing them for today’s shortcomings with peer reviewed research. Students need concepts reintroduced, then built upon at every grade level in order for them to develop. Every teacher is tested by state and federal requirements to be competent at every subject they are to teach. While the common core group might not be mathmeticians they are teachers and they have proven themselves time and again throughout school, entrance exams, and finally state certification exams. To belittle that is to spit on every teacher not just the ones you disagree with.

          • rickg62

            Algebra is algebra and trig is trig you moron. They teach the same same thing today. As a matter of fact, they teach less. When our son was in high school geometry, they didn’t learn half of what we had to learn. Today’s teachers should teach more, but unfortunately, they know a lot less. Schools are more concerned with the teaching theory courses you need to have, rather than the actual subject matter that they will teach.

            In most universities, the teacher school is considered a joke and is inhabited, quite a bit, by those with lower SAT scores. Once they graduate and get jobs, they’re protected by their union so no matter how bad they are they are almost impossible to get rid of. Of course the union doesn’t care a bit about the students, they admit to such. Their only concern is the dues their members pay.

            I dare say I know economics than you. Nice try to deflect, but please, go tell that CEO that she’s full of crap. Please, i dare you. This idiocy in this problem you figure out on your own after you the basics. At 9 years old you learn the basics. If you needed a textbook to figure out this relationship, you’re dumber than you sound. No go away and leave the normal people alone.

          • James Greer III

            Very eloquent. I guess you didn’t score a 100 on the English portion of your regents exam? Unfortunately for you, if someone is a certified teacher they have proven to the university as well as the state that they are educated enough teach Algebra, Geometry, and Trigonometry. And as one who is so fond of standardized test results you would think you’d be happy there is a pass/ fail for teachers in those areas. However, you have to concede that not only do they know the material, but that they have studied the most recent peer reviewed research concerning how to teach. “While it might not be how you learned or would teach” you are not certified an expert on either. So, excuse me while I value your opinion as such, and show my disdain for a reporter who gets paid to make sensational stories or provide interesting material without any real over site.

          • rickg62

            Actually I got 98 because my teacher, who was a lawyer and author of legal textbooks, told me he took a point off each essay because he believed that the state would do it anyway, not wanting to give a perfect score.

            You seem to be in love with your peer reviewed methods of teaching. These reviews would not pass muster in any legitimate area of scientific inquiry. They are merely reinforcing whatever the authors look to push as the latest fad. In order to be legitimate, these practices being reviewed need to have been in place in a variety of school settings over a period of years. At that point there need to be quantifiable results showing success or failure. These results would then be reviewed as to methods used, testing variables, etc. Unfortunately your reviews usually consist of a group of education theorists, who have been overseeing the decline in U.S. education over the past forty plus years, sitting around saying “yeah, that sounds like a good idea, let’s try it out”.

            Do you ever wonder why students from schools that look to hire teachers with degrees in their subject such as math or chemistry score higher than those where the emphasis is on a degree in the latest teaching fad?

          • James Greer III

            “Legitimate area of scientific inquiry” are you referring to child psychology, biology, neurosciences, and behavioral development as non-legitimate scientific study? If so, then you are beyond even the moon. These studies are more than just “fads,” excuse me while I laugh at you for calling Piaget and Vygotsky “fads,” they are established theories that express how a learner learns then we as educators curtail our material as such. I see that you failed to engage on the original point once more? Did you lose your taste for blurting your idiocy all over the internet about a perfectly legitimate math problem?

          • rickg62

            Apparently you are a product of some of these “peer reviewed” studies. You can neither read nor comprehend. I was talking about the hard sciences. To a psychology major, Piaget’s theories appear as a logical statement of what we see in the real world through experience. As far as Vygotsky, are you referring to what’s being called a misinterpretation of his writings due to translation errors or a re-examination of original texts? There has been a lot of criticism of Western interpretation. Too many educational ideas, and yes they are fads, damage the educational process before somebody says “this is stupid”. An instance would be the self esteem issue as giving credit for trying. If this is your belief and if you really are an educator, then God help us.

            As far as the original problem is concerned, once the process of adding single digits is mastered everything builds upon this skill. The process this problem spends time on is a logical recognition without the need to encumber the student with unneeded terms like number bonds and skip counting. Even my wife, for whom math is not a natural process, automatically knows what this problem conveys.

  • Kimberly Collins Ortiz

    Our 6th grader had an ELA exam where you fill in the circles on a separate sheet , just like the regents exams.. Except they did not print
    Two of the questions so the students aswer grid was off !!!

  • Guest

    The problem is they stopped making children learn/memorize times tables and this is the result. Somehow we all learned way back when how to do cursive and times tables, states and capitols, etc etc.

  • Robert Alphonse

    Thanks, Gov. Rick Scott ,for dumping CC in Fla.!

  • Rick

    holy fucking shit there are alot of stupid people on here commenting….

  • Batschach

    The answer might be 14, but God knows how an elementary schooler would know how to figure that out.

  • roscojim

    What’s wrong with knowing the tables???