There’s lots of uninformed buzz on Twitter today about a report purporting to show 141 percent voter turnout in St. Lucie County, Florida:

Twitter user @NathanWurtzel points out that the figure is based on “cards cast,” which is not the same as votes cast.

It appears that “cards cast” refers to the number of ballots times the number of pages on each ballot. So if the ballot is two pages long, “cards cast” should be twice the number of ballots cast.

Does voter fraud exist? Yes.

Is it prevalent enough to explain Barack Obama’s margin of victory (about three million votes nationwide, about 74,000 votes in Florida)?  No.

  • Guest

    Why are you downplaying this obvious fraud?

    • Jesse Malkin

      hope you are kidding. did you read our post?

  • Guest

    if ballot was 2 sheets and 175K voted = 350K but alas math is a challenge , the vote total says 247K ..please, just like in school, please show your work with the answer

    • Kevin Post

      oh and NM ,where i voted, had a two page ballot too and do not see these errors

    • Gabor Schmiz

      the report doesn’t say how many people voted, it states the number of registered voters and the number of cards cast. 247713/2 ~ 123857. if you divide that by the number of total registered voters you get 70,55% which is fairly reasonable

      • rvolt24

        ~123857?… shouldn’t these numbers be even?… other states don’t have this problem… even other FL counties don’t… math work differently down there?

        • AMERICAN Kafir™(KAdams)

          No, because he’s saying not all registered voters cast ballots.

    • mareader

      Guest is right. Beyond that, this story is so easily refuted that it must have been started by abject liars. (Go to the source material and look at page 3–that is all it takes.)

  • Dr0opy

    Kansas had two cards as well, but you don’t see any of these types of reports coming from there. We know how to count in Kansas.

    • yahneverknow

      When the county made up the document, they probably shouldn’t have used the word “turnout” in the first set of values. They themselves showed “turnout” as above 100% values. The idiots never made a note or any reference to the voters each using 2 cards to vote.

      Once I scrolled down to read the actual vote counts, I facepalmed and realized how idiotic it was.

      edited to add link to the document:

    • conservativechick

      Alan West is being denied the right to verify votes in Florida BUT in AZ where THEY lost, Harry Reid said this: “..we are reminded that the right to vote is the foundation of our democracy. That right is not secure when some votes are counted while others are suppressed or ignored. I expect state and local officials in Arizona to ensure that every vote is counted promptly, accurately and equally.” Hypocrites.

      • OpposingVue

        That does not equate. Yes, the right to vote is a defining aspect of our society, and the right to have your vote counted is part of that. That is why I consider it an obscenity that there are some states that refuse to process and count early, absentee or provisional ballot unless and only if there is a recount.
        However, that is not the situation in Florida. In that case, it isn’t that some people’s votes were not counted, but that the loser demands a recount even though the results did not meet the legally required level of votes for one to be ordered.

        Correction: okay, provisional ballot may not have been counted in Florida either. I still think that that is wrong. However, I don’t see how West can think that it would change the election result.

  • Steak

    Reported as rumor, taken as absolute truth. That’s a pretty good description of conservative “reality.”

    • Teresa Davis McCormick

      Yes!!!! If it was socialist reality, Obama would have told MSNBC and Chris matthews would be talking about it. (chris matthews prob believes it anyway)

    • TugboatPhil

      Money is printed on paper. If you run out, print some more.

      That IS liberal “reality.”

      • Roxie McMann


    • Bigfoot Steve

      If we make it impossible to stay in business, employers will repay us by hiring people. That’s a pretty good description of liberal reality.

  • Mike Rogers

    Kevin, your math is inverted.
    248,000 vote cards =124,000 voters.
    Vice-versa, IF all 175,000 registered voters turned out, there would be 350,000 cards.
    124,000 / 175,000 ~= 70% very reasonable.
    Not saying there were no irregularities, but this is not smoking gun.

    • rvolt24

      Why do other counties not show up this way?… St. Lucie math different than other counties?

      • Bigfoot Steve

        Do other counties have 2 vote cards per ballot/voter?

      • Mike Rogers

        Correct. Something odd about St Lucie. Even if we grant them the two card ballot, the percentage for Obama is too high.

  • Typewriterstreaming

    No wonder our economy is a mess. The Dems don’t even know you can stop adding fake votes when you hit 100%.

  • Chad W

    Sore Loserman… remember?

    • Teresa Davis McCormick

      oh look who’s back. How many times do you have to be told that just because Obama won, you didn’t.

  • TiLiNi

    Instead of the KKK, today we have the Black Panthers. Instead of the Mafia, today we have the Obama administration.

    • Michael Hampton

      Um…there was ONE black panther person outside of a polling station and he was opening the door for people. He lives right by that polling station. Your demonizing of him only makes you look like an idiot.

      • News Reporter

        Michael, speaking of idiots, how would you like to defend the New Black Panthers and their platform of racism, hatred, intimidation and violence? You look like the idiot. Then again, all liberals like you defend the indefensible. Go play with your toys little boy.

        • Michael Coone

          Sorry, News Reporter, but 1 Black Panther isn’t scaring anyone. By the way, look for the news article about people saying how helpful he was. I’m 100% certain that dude did nothing to change the election results in PA.

          I’m not going to touch anything related to their platform, so I think Michael was hasty in calling TiliNi an idiot, but I definitely take offense to comparing the Obama administration to the Mafia.

          That is complete hyperbole.

          Also, calling someone a little boy just makes you sound stupid.

  • votermom

    I’m sorry, HOW do you know it was not enough to tip the election? Did you investigate the Philly precincts where GOP watchers where thrown out and Obama got 99% of the vote?

    You can say you don’t believe there is enough, but you can’t say you KNOW. If you say we should not look for evidence of voter fraud because you don’t see evidence of voter fraud, then you are using circular logic.

    • mwill

      those precincts were 100% african american so yeah…i can see how they voted 99% obama. i do believe that voter fraud played a large part in this election but i think it’s bigger than a few precincts. we really need to take a good look at the swing states.

      • Cocotrini

        wow that is some real civic duty there 99%?? I call that voter magic imagine everyone coming out to vote, this day should go down in history as a record for voting patterns in the world, am sure this one was a first.

        • Michael Coone

          Umm, it happened in the same ward 4 years ago when McCain got 60 votes. Obama won 99% of that ward. Romney got 55 votes this election.
          Do you guys not know how Philadelphia votes? This is completely normal and not a voting record or any other stupid thing you want to call it. It’s called reality and fact checking. Try it out sometime.

      • votermom

        99% vote is a result one would expect from a 3rd world dictatorship. Real elections are never that staggering.

        • bitteraftertaste

          Dear Leader punked us all! Now he’s laughing all the way to the golf course! The GOP doesn’t know how to run a campaign and is out of touch. All you had to do was look at the social networks and you could predict that Mitt was in trouble. If the GOP had a black candidate it would have made things more interesting. But Obama has a built in constituency based not on what he says or does, but skin color-sure, it is a racist thing to say, but ain’t it the truth.

          • conservativechick

            Voters say they do not LIKE the attack ads, but EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN TARGETED WITH LIES AND ATTACKS LOST? Attack ads, lies and Alinsky politics DO WORK. What a sad commentary.

          • Lougjr1

            I blame it all on the uninformed Americans because of the mass media
            who don’t know what truth means. Its only truth if it fits their leftist agenda. If you don’t agree with them you are a right wing nut case, a nazzi,a bigot, a kkk cracker, or any other nasty thing you can
            come up with ! If socialists can’t win an arument, they must resort to name calling. I found out that the white democrats were the first ones
            to move away

          • OpposingVue

            “…If socialists can’t win an arument, they must resort to name calling…”
            Oh, the irony…

          • Lougjr1

            It’s the truth! Period !

          • Michael Coone

            The GOP did have a black candidate. Herman Cain, pizza man. He’s probably working with Papa John right now to cut worker hours and pretend it’s Obama’s fault.

          • allah_speaking

            The fallout from Obamacare is just starting.

        • AMERICAN Kafir™(KAdams)

          Just compare 2008 numbers. If the same demographic made up the wards then, as they do now, the numbers should be similar, I would think. They would still vote the same.

          • Michael Coone

            KAdams – good point. McCain got 60 voters in Ward 4, Romney got 55. Seems to be exactly the same.

        • Lougjr1

          THANK YOU AGAIN !!!

      • bitteraftertaste

        and 100% on government dole too!

      • yahneverknow

        Voting 99% for Obama is way different than 99% turnout.
        The former is more possible, given the makeup of that particular precinct.
        The latter is not likely in any area.

    • Edna Earle Crews

      The folks in PA should demand an investigation about the votes there. Unless there is an investigation no one will know. Probably every state should do this! Fat chance.

    • Lougjr1

      THANK YOU !!

    • Michael Coone

      Why would you say real elections are never that staggering? Do you know how many votes McCain got in that same ward in Philadelphia? 60 votes. Romney got 55. So, I’m sorry to tell you, but almost everyone in that area is black – and voted for Obama.

      You didn’t hear anything about it last election because people must’ve had more common sense back then to realize there’s no Republicans there!

      That is not voter fraud. You would be a bad lawyer, because that evidence isn’t even circumstantial. It’s a fact that Ward 4 voted 99% for Obama, just like they did for Obama in 2008 against McCain.

  • scrubjay

    What was the St. Lucie over-vote in Allen West’s contest?

  • dsinlp

    NO VOTER FRAUD. If you would take the time to actually read the election results document, you would understand that the number of votes is the cumulative number of votes cast for each category on the the ballot, i.e, the number of votes cast for President, the number of votes cast for Senator, State Senator etc. It’s not rocket science.

    • rvolt24

      Rocket science involves math where even numbers are divisible by two… and math is the same in adjacent counties; why no irregularities there?

  • Renee Haigh

    i heard that a lot of half people live in county: when you are a half person you have to live in that county they make you go there: just a half person would be the 41 % of the 141% who voted there!! what a farce

    • Roxie McMann

      EXACTLY, I’m not buying this down play. We need a recount that ends up 2+2=4.

  • rick simmons

    I understand the numbers-no problem. When one of the observers from Allen West’s group found a card with a post it note attached with “change to yes”, and the fact that there are crates of uncounted military ballots on the floor in the warehouse— there have been irregularities since Tuesday night-well???

  • heymikey80

    No, bigger problem here: NONE of the other precinct reports shows a cardscast doubling the number of votes. PLUS, the count isn’t right: it would be identically 200% every time, but it’s not. PLUS St Lucie whatsherface intentionally did a recount in the middle of the election, changing the vote by 6000 voters.

    There’s a problem here. It may not vindicate West, true, but there’s a problem here.

    • yahneverknow

      I’m amazed that the military absentee ballots were counted in a closed room. That’s kind of ridiculous.

      • heymikey80

        … and some sites have said it’s illegal in FL. Observers are required to have observational access since 2000 debacle.

  • Baitcarfun

    Everyone knows that the dems are the best at voter fraud, they will cheat, lie and do anything to win, but this time they screwed themself, next year they are going feel the pain, because there taxes are going to go up too it called obamacare, the red states will start passing laws to cut off all food stamp and welfare, doctors will start turn them away if they have Medicare or Medicaid most doctors will not take those insurances in 2013, for most of america this will be the last good christmas for a long time.

    • Michael Coone

      Everyone knows this? By everyone, do you mean Republicans? Because I have a feeling that the Democrats feel the same way about you.

      • John Fowler

        And those Democrats would be wrong. Just take five minutes to search news articles for people convicted of voter fraud. It’s not even close.

  • hwy505

    I live in St Lucie County. Though it is true we had two sheets – each has a sku which is identical and counts as one vote. There has been a witch hunt to cast Congressman West aside, and seeing the riff raff that runs the board of elections down here – nothing surprises me.

    • TugboatPhil

      Didn’t the state GOP screw him over in the redistricting?

  • daisy amos

    There were just too many reports of various kinds of “irregularities” to convince me the election was fair and honest. Here’s a partial list: several reports of “poorly calibrated” voting machines that converted Romney votes to Obama (later there was a report of one voting machine that did the opposite–Obama to Romney–and it got a lot of press); absentee ballots not sent out to overseas military (accidentally, on purpose or due to inefficiency…who knows?) and of the ones sent out, thousands of military votes not counted, including ballots reportedly destroyed in a plane crash (no other details reported, not even what happened to pilot); busloads of unregistered voters (“foreigners,” accdg. to poll watchers who reported their observations) arriving at precincts; GOP inspectors being forced out of Philadelphia polling places; counting machines in Spain reportedly connected to billionaire-supporter of Obama, George Soros, etc. An interesting news tidbit: Obama won all states with no voter ID laws (blocked by Eric Holder), a major concern in counties where there remain large numbers of dead people on voter rolls. Another post-election report in certain swing states, the number of actual voters exceeded the number of registered voters. In the polling place where my husband and I voted, I could see how it would be easy for unscrupulous people to tamper with ballots to achieve certain desired results. Our voting system assumes honesty of political parties & election personnel and integrity of the ballot as premise of a democratic form of government. If the ballot is not safe from corrupt, partisan hands, then elections are just for show or as another tweeter described it, “theater.” Very expensive and, more significantly, a subversion of the democratic process. With elections like these, how does America have the moral authority to “sell” democracy to the rest of the world?

    • Michael Coone

      I don’t think you WANT to believe the election was fair and honest. I know you would’ve if Romney won.

      I know this because you are only mentioning “voter fraud” related to Democrats. Sadly, most of what you mentioned is incorrect or unrelated to voter fraud.

    • Ben

      >An interesting news tidbit: Obama won all states with no voter ID laws (blocked by Eric Holder)

      Here in WV there is no voter ID law and Romney won.

  • Tin Foil Hat

    We need an investigation as Gore may be President now instead of Bush!

    • plus_tips

      You are still stuck on Gore? Get out of your Parents Basement, Loser! BTW, Al Bore lost his State of Tennessee, win that first then comes Florida. The recounts all claimed G W Bush as the winner. LOL

  • michael s

    i see a lot of dick morris math here. i’m sure its voter fraud because james o keefe that stalwart probationer said so.

  • Mark James

    How many of the 15,000,000 nationwide “Hispanic” voters did so legally?

  • plus_tips

    What do you expect from the Party of Fraud ~ DemoCraps? Without the DOJ suing states over the Voter ID Laws, Obummer Phones, Birth Control Pills, Obummer Care – Cradle to grave Care, illegal Aliens, no way the evil DemonCrats would/should have won. In the Market Place of Ideas Tyranny always Loses. We have become Venezuela it seems.

    • Michael Coone

      You sound really intelligent when you make up silly names for things.

  • Guest

    Err… according to the statement of votes cast, 247,713 people voted for president in that county, 66,246 for Obama and 56,125 for Romney. Save that tinfoil!

    • Back 4 More

      By your math, that means 125,342 votes went to someone else.

  • GlockG22shoots40s

    If each ballot is 2 cards, then WHY is the cast count an ODD number….

  • Back 4 More

    We don’t have elections, we have selections. Obama was selected by the people that really control our country. In 4 years someone else will be selected. Do you really think the most powerful people in the world are going to let average people decide who the president is? Our presidents are puppets, nothing more, nothing less.

    • Stephen Mizer

      I hate to say it, but I really don’t have any confidence in the election process anymore. The snews media is already the most reprobate, visible example of the left wing dictating – and I use that word deliberately – what we are supposed to think and do in this country. Welcome to the Brave New World of “global harmony.”

  • conservativechick

    Allen West should be able to VERIFY EVERY SINGLE VOTE. Then if he actually LOST, fine. IF there was fraud, then there needs to be an INVESTIGATION ASAP of ALL POLLING PLACES. Now thevoter will see why we NEED VALID VOTER IDs. (a little too late, but that’s the way the Obama administration PLANNED it)

    • $24698634

      Wrong. The candidates don’t get to verify votes. The Board of Elections does. There are mechanisms in place to deal with irregularities. Where recounts are called for, they will occur. Anything else is anarchy.

      • conservativechick

        As a CANDIDATE he has the right to a fair election where every vote counts and is verified. It doesn’t matter WHO is SUPPOSED to do that and obviously your “mechanisms” can’t work very well without VOTER ID, can they? Cheating should NEVER BE ALLOWED by either side. THAT would be anarchy! RECOUNT IS IN ORDER.. ALL VOTES!

  • Terry

    Milwaukee County WI had 88% voter turn out. I ain’t buyin that.

  • Moshe Averick

    141 %? That’s just average for a precinct here in Chicago where I live!

  • Christene

    I disagree,..they have been preparing for over the last 4 years. More then enough time to fight against voter ID laws in only “certain” states.More then enough time to stack any deck. Were talking about the “Chicago way”.

  • Mark Talmont

    You need to look at the votescam website and also view the video by the same name on YouTube. You’ll see “hanging chads” in action a well in advance of the Florida fiasco in 2000. Also evidence that Janet Reno supervised vote fraud in Dade County before she was the 3rd string choice for AG.

    Now we’re through the looking glass with these electronic machines, none of which have ever been shown to be secure. There were a few stories about alleged Romney connections to the company supplying voting machines in Ohio–a lot of good that did him–but now the actual transmission of the voting results in many states is controlled by SCYTL a foreign-owned company of questionable origins (ie repeated changes in country where the parent company is based).

  • myadvocate

    Cards cast is no the same as votes. It appears there are two cards per vote. btw, St. Lucie County is Republican. So…70% turnout.

  • moonsbreath

    Always a problem with Florida.

  • Semmy Johansen

    open and provable cheating was one thing… then there was the ‘secretary of state project’ which works behind the scenes to defraud us…


    • Stephen Mizer

      Unfortunately, rich liberals have studied us and learned how the human animal ticks, and know how to manipulate and push us around to get us to agree to their goals. One World Odor is just around the corner… yeah, I typed “odor,” because it’s going to stink like a cadaver.

  • Lougjr1

    Elections have everything to do with who can buy the most votes. Sorry to say, Democrats win. They have always been able to buy votes by giving people stuff
    paid not with their money but with working class tax money, Our government has become
    as corrupt as China, Russia, N Korea, Iran or any of the Muslim countries. I doubt that we will be able to get through 4 yrs. without a massive problem. Am I trying to scare you? I don’t have to, You will have the fright of your life inside of 2 yrs. Elections have consequences, so now live with it !!!

  • Marty Luther

    I applaud the Obama machine for a nuanced amount of fraud. Too little wouldn’t help, too much would create problems. They are good at all the right things, election-wise.

    • Jim Jones

      you can’t have it both ways repubtard, either the President is history’s greatest monster or he is history’s most ineffective do nothing president.
      you freaks need to decide on a single narrative, trying to keep up with it all is tiring.

  • Michael Hampton

    What? No proof? None? Then shut up about voter fraud. There have been 10 counts of such fraud within the last 20 years. That is it. Please stop lying.

    • plus_tips

      What was the point of the DOJ suing States over Voter ID Laws if it wasn’t to improve the chances of Oblamer winning?

  • Mel R. Johnson

    Check out this video, then tell me if fraud could have swayed the election:

  • lana ward

    The weazels in the White House have been scheming for 4 years on how to steal this election. The media NOT reporting damning information on Obama and voter fraud everywhere. Republicans didn’t stand a chance. The media should all be hung!!, and picture ID for ALL voters!!

  • Lougjr1

    OpposingVue, So whats the irony?

  • David Weiss

    Even if they counted 2 cards/ballot, that would mean 70% of the registered voters turned out to vote, which would make them the highest percentage I’ve ever seen for any county… ever. I’m still calling shenanigans until they do a full recount.

  • BeeKaaay

    Welcome to the United States of Chicago. Next stop, the United States of Detroit.

  • Francis Sacco

    Then why did each ballot only have 1 scan number?