Somewhere between the name calling and the admonishments to “Google it” lies an interesting argument about the future of marriage, and it kicked off today between Amanda Marcotte and Wall Street Journal columnist James Taranto. The two were battling over Marcotte’s piece in Salon analyzing a mother’s letter to the Princeton newspaper encouraging female students to look for husbands while attending college. In part, Susan Patton, a mother of two sons at Princeton, wrote to the Daily Princetonian:

Here’s what nobody is telling you: Find a husband on campus before you graduate. Yes, I went there.

Smart women can’t (shouldn’t) marry men who aren’t at least their intellectual equal. As Princeton women, we have almost priced ourselves out of the market. Simply put, there is a very limited population of men who are as smart or smarter than we are. And I say again—you will never again be surrounded by this concentration of men who are worthy of you.

Marcotte interprets the letter as evidence that casual sex on campus isn’t necessarily for young men’s benefit, but “often more a strategy young women use to delay commitments that they perceive as obstacles to their personal and career goals.” But does Mrs. Patton have a point?

Who are you going to believe? Marcotte’s mom or the statistical facts?

Marcotte claims a triumph with her statistical facts, but it wouldn’t be a victory lap without a shot at male privilege.

What? When did anyone claim that?

Retrograde gender essentialism? Could someone please translate into terms those of us who didn’t attend Princeton can understand?

Um, thanks.

  • NRPax

    Did she have anything approaching a point?

    • http://wizbangblog.com/ Adjoran

      Sure she does – right at the top o’ her head!

      • NRPax

        At least she’s a good baseline on what not to do.

    • operanerd1986

      I can almost never understand anything Amanda Marcotte says.

      • NRPax

        Thanks. I was worried that I was missing something vital.

    • TocksNedlog

      Given her mention of Michelle Obama, apparently her point is “don’t marry a coed; marry a coworker instead!”

    • TocksNedlog

      Given her mention of Michelle Obama, apparently her point is “don’t marry a coed; marry a coworker instead!”

  • http://www.facebook.com/138900508 Patrick Dennehy

    I am sure women can find a husband after they graduate and start a career. The point Susan Patton, which was completely lost on Amanda, was making is “you will never again be surrounded by this concentration of men who are worthy of you”, as when you are in college. Which is absolutely true.

    Instead, Amanda ascertains that “They know women who delay marriage make more money and have more independence, and they want to prevent that.”…WTH is wrong with this girl? That is the logical leap she makes?

    Feminists are whacked in the head; it’s always the work of male oppressors, when in fact the point was to find a male worthy of you../sigh

    • radishthegreat

      “I am sure women can find a husband after they graduate and start a career. ”

      Depends on what they major in. I work in aviation software. Men have no interest in women who work in aviation software. None. Zero. The only women engineers I know who are married met their husbands when they were students together. The men I work with are all married to women who do not work outside the home and did “pink collar” jobs before that.

      OTOH, if I’d listened to my mother and majored in elementary education instead of something I was good at…kindergarten teachers do get married. So do nurses, receptionists with English degrees, etc.

      There’s a similar situation in China; high-achieving men don’t want high-achieving women. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/12/opinion/global/chinas-leftover-women.html?_r=0 And there’s a drastic male-female imbalance there, unlike here.

      • Netmilsmom

        You need an interest outside of engineering. Try something geek and lower your standards in men, There are hundreds of really nice guys, who have been emotionally scared by bitchy, snotty women. They hang out in role-playing places, cons and comic book stores. They don’t make a lot of money, but are nice and sincere. If you wanted to marry an engineer, you should have gotten him in college.

      • Netmilsmom

        You need an interest outside of engineering. Try something geek and lower your standards in men, There are hundreds of really nice guys, who have been emotionally scared by bitchy, snotty women. They hang out in role-playing places, cons and comic book stores. They don’t make a lot of money, but are nice and sincere. If you wanted to marry an engineer, you should have gotten him in college.

      • http://www.vatican.va/ Rulz

        Artificial population control does risk unbalancing the population.

      • http://www.vatican.va/ Rulz

        Artificial population control does risk unbalancing the population.

      • http://www.facebook.com/138900508 Patrick Dennehy

        Netmilsmom, gave some good advice. There are nice guys out there, just widen your net.

        I am a software engineer and I would have absolutely no problem dating someone in my field; if we had great chemistry and shared similar morals.

      • Soullite

        High-achieving men want beautiful women. That’s the reason most of them tried so hard to ‘achieve’ in the first place.

        A high-achieving woman doesn’t rate very highly in men’s eyes. Men aren’t looking for that. Women look for that. This is a mistake women often make, but the genders are looking for different things in a mate. Women want status and wealthy. Men want youth and beauty. No one comes out looking that great on this one.

    • Soullite

      This is Amanda Marcotte. She loves pretending that she can see inside the hearts of minds of men, where she sees nothing but darkness and hatred there.

      She’s just a bigot. She hates men. Sadly, feminism has become quite the refuge for those types.

  • $30423294

    Miss Marcotte actually worked briefly with — get this — John Edwards! (snort) — as his blog editor. She was to manage his message while Mr. Edwards was engaged in the “ins and outs” of his campaign.

    Ladies, whatever Miss Marcotte thinks, it is probably good advice to raise your daughter to think the opposite.

    • V the K

      Heh, “Ins and outs.” I see what you did there.

      Also, Twitchy, THANK YOU ^ 1000 for not putting Ms. Marcotte’s picture in the rotation at the top of the page. It was bad enough having Ana M. Cox’s circus-freak mug up there for three days last week.

    • CherDash

      She was made infamous for posting disgusting things on her blog back in the day: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2007/02/does_john_edwar/

    • http://evilbloggerlady.blogspot.com/ Evi L. Bloggerlady
  • irishgirl91

    Did Amanda analyze to whom these ladies were being married? In my experience, not scientific I know, these men were college boyfriends.

  • http://twitter.com/BrianPHovland Brian H (wackobird)

    And this CLEARLY illustrates the battle raging in the liberal female mind 24/7. That amount of crazy should require a permit.

  • http://www.facebook.com/brett.mcmicken Brett McMicken

    They know women who delay marriage make more money and have more independence, and they want to prevent that.

    ———————————

    well, which is it? to hear feminists tell it, they live in the most oppressive country in the world, bar none.

  • rivers

    Hilarious how people like Marcotte “discuss”: “yeah well, my mom has a husband so there!”

  • John (it true me am)

    Does anyone else just really not care what the over-inflated ego driven ivy leaguers do? Both sides of the discussion seem pointless to me.

    On the one side we have Mrs. Patton’s supposed point. The people getting married(or rather meeting their future, and probably future former, spouse) on campus just to meet their “intellectual equal” is how we end up with yuppie hipster couples that wear matching designer his and her sunglasses. I mean look at her phrasing… “priced themself out of the market”. How is that not the most condescending elitist crap anyone has ever seen? Why is Taranto seemingly writing on her behalf?

    And on the other side we of course have Marcotte’s arguement against nothing anyone even remotely said that is just… what’s a polite word for bat-shit insane?

    (Edit:) Wow, I just read Taranto’s “Girls Gone Hyper” article. What a load of trash. He does a fair job destroying everyone else’s points, no issue there, but then his own opinions on the subject are equally laughable. Particularly evident by his video game comments near the end he shows he is clearly out of touch with the demographic that is most in question regarding marriage(let’s say 30 to 35 and below).

    Losers all around in this fight.

    • Raye09

      I don’t see what the big fight is either. Marcotte just sounds crazy and the rest is a big WTF moment.

      It is not a point of arguing and lets face it: Most Ivy-League students cringe at the thought of dating someone who went to a state school. Most 20-something men would never dream of paying for a date, and most 20 something women refuse to date anyone without a college degree regardless of how much they make or how stable they are. People in the 20-30 range want an “egalitarian” relationship, which translates to “If you do not make as much as me, are not as educated as me, and don’t keep your looks at supermodel status then GTFO”.

      Young people these days are very tied down to college degrees, it actually determines a persons worth to many of them. No college degree is a major “deal-breaker” when determining friends and relationships. I actually know a woman my age(22) who said “Steve Jobs had no degree, he had no real knowledge, I couldn’t date a man without true knowledge or a college degree”, she said this while polishing her ipad. Another man (23) said “No college degree means they are intellectually beneath me, I can’t talk to people with no degree, they just don’t get more intellectual conversations and stuff”. The elitist attitude is very prevalent among todays youth.

      Let these people have each other, let them just fight each other, it means they leave the rest of us alone.

      • http://www.facebook.com/138900508 Patrick Dennehy

        I personally want to marry my intellectual equal. There is a stipulation, you must be conservative and christian. I’ve tried dating girls who were ‘smart’ and I’ve had to break it off because we did not share the same values; which for me is of paramount importance. Social standing, your diploma, and financial viability are inconsequential. I live a humble existence, by choice..

        Most young people today are brainwashed and don’t understand what is truly important, god help them…

        • Raye09

          I firmly believe that college cannot give you true knowledge or intellect. It helps prepare you for the job market nut that’s about it. Some of the dumbest people I know have masters degrees. Couple pseudo intellect with zero manners and you have a disaster.

          Kudos to you for looking for someone who shares your values and beliefs. Compatibility is based on more than how much you make. Good luck.

          • Patrick Dennehy

            I agree. Good posts :)

  • Lamontyoubigdummy

    Huh.

    I always thought the statement, ‘It was the craziest, angriest, most feminist snapping vagina I’ve ever seen!!!” would be preceded by the statement, “We’d only been on the Amazon jungle tour for maybe 15 minutes before it came out of nowhere and lunged right at us”.

  • Lamontyoubigdummy

    Amanda Marcotte.

    Killing boners since noticed in 2007.

    Sandra Fluke.

    Killing boners since high school.

    Both still think they need birth control.

  • YERMOM182

    “@jamestaranto I’d ask Michelle Obama about how hard it was for her to meet someone suitable after Princeton.”

    not hard at all, she just had to go to one of Reverend Wright’s Down Low Meetings where the mean ugly bitches in the church get matched up to one of the gay members for cover.

  • wcvarones

    Is Ivy League snobbery justified? You make the call.

    http://www.wcvarones.com/2013/03/ivy-league-snobbery-justified.html

  • stellatruman

    One of my daughter’s will be getting her undergrad soon, and attending grad school in the fall ( thankfully in a field still hiring and well paid ) She attends a large well respected university , not an Ivy. She has been active in her sorority all through school and there clearly are girls there that majored in MRS..thankfully she is not one of them , although she is in a serious relationship with a young man that she met in the city she attends school in who will also graduate with his MBA and will begin his career in a very high paying job ( at least in my book ) She has ” sisters ” who envy her for this reason….I would prefer they admire her dedication to her own education and her career goals.

    • Soullite

      She’ll have a high paying job, but unless she’s very beautiful, she won’t land a man equal to her in education. That’s the topic of the day, not whether or not women should go to college entirely to find a husband.

      She’ll make a lot of money. As a consequence (due to an mammalian instinct called hypergamy), she will only be willing to marry someone she perceives as having more resources than she does (she simply won’t find anyone else attractive). However, the men with more money than she has won’t view her as a potential mate unless shes as attractive as all of the other women who want him. If she waits as long as Marcotte wants her to wait (around 30ish), she won’t have a snowballs chance of competing with attractive early 20-somethings. That’s just a fact of life, no matter how much you don’t want to hear it. That’s the point being made here.

  • MB

    Why can’t we reach true equality and decide what we want to do with our lives and not have some [email protected] @ss tell us what we should or shouldn’t be doing? If the government isn’t having to support you – it should be nobodies business when, where, and how educated the person is that you marry. I’ve stayed at home with babies and had a career before they came and now after they are in school and I am fed up with people and presidents judging my choices.

  • http://www.vatican.va/ Rulz

    “@petersterne Don’t worry. Most women don’t care if a gross weirdo like James Taranto claims he doesn’t want to fuck them.”–Amanda Marcotte

    Personally, I’ve been amazed at how far democrat women, even ones who are religious, will go before marriage.

    Probably don’t want to go there.

    “@AmandaMarcotte Even apart from the empirical problems, the framing of that article is disgusting (and retrograde) gender essentialism.”–Peter Sterne

    (rolls eyes) another lib male trying to impress the field with big words and concepts.

    Really, guys, if you want a girl don’t pander.

    “@RowanKaiser They know women who delay marriage make more money and have more independence, and they want to prevent that.” A. Marcotte

    Psh, A married woman does NOT need consoling or advice from some democrat-recruiting educrat on how to be independent.

    I would bet you any married man could tell you that!

  • http://www.vatican.va/ Rulz

    “@petersterne Don’t worry. Most women don’t care if a gross weirdo like James Taranto claims he doesn’t want to fuck them.”–Amanda Marcotte

    Personally, I’ve been amazed at how far democrat women, even ones who are religious, will go before marriage.

    Probably don’t want to go there.

    “@AmandaMarcotte Even apart from the empirical problems, the framing of that article is disgusting (and retrograde) gender essentialism.”–Peter Sterne

    (rolls eyes) another lib male trying to impress the field with big words and concepts.

    Really, guys, if you want a girl don’t pander.

    “@RowanKaiser They know women who delay marriage make more money and have more independence, and they want to prevent that.” A. Marcotte

    Psh, A married woman does NOT need consoling or advice from some democrat-recruiting educrat on how to be independent.

    I would bet you any married man could tell you that!

  • Virginia Shea

    This is the first I’ve ever heard of James Taranto, and I hope it’s the last. Regardless of what you think of Marcotte, Taranto is a pig.

    • Soullite

      Yes. He said something for a purpose other than making you nod your head, so he’s a pig. Clearly.

      Taranto never said a thing that was crude here. Marcotte calls him ‘weird’ and ‘gross’, and somehow he’s the pig…