If that photo-gone-viral of a J.C. Penney shopper casually strapped with an AR-15 demonstrates anything, it’s that there really are two Americas when it comes to citizens’ comfort level with firearms. In the ongoing “national conversation” on guns, it always seems to come down to the “gun nuts” versus the, um, “non-gun tribe” (not our term; it’s really time to settle on a name). On the eve of the first-ever Gun Appreciation Day, Breitbart contributor and most #caring man on Twitter Kurt Schlichter and Talking Points Memo publisher Josh Marshall (and some willing bystanders) had the debate on guns we didn’t make the time to have before Gov. Andrew Cuomo and President Obama weighed in our evolving right to bear arms.

Bonus: Piers Morgan didn’t butt in.

Speaking of gun appreciation, it all kicked off with Marshall’s piece on TPM, called “Speaking for My Tribe,” in which he introduces himself as a “non-gun person.” Pop some popcorn and follow along.

Is there any common ground to be found here, between Schlichter and the man who wrote a lengthy, introspective piece about “gun versus non-gun tribalism or mentality”? Or, put another way, between the man who won’t own a gun and says he pays taxes to support a trained Army, and the man who carried a gun as a lieutenant colonel in that very Army? We’re guessing no. Let’s cut to the closing arguments.

So, if it comes down to dueling fantasies, where one side carries guns to fight off the collapse of society and the other side thinks that collapse is the stuff of movies only, who’s right?

No, but they still have the right … so far.

  • V the K

    Any liberal who thinks it’s a great idea to trust the Government with a monopoly on force ought to visit an Indian Reservation.

  • carla5731

    One of the best points Ben Shapiro made in his interview with Piers Morgan:

    MORGAN: Which tyranny are you fearing, yourself?

    SHAPIRO: I fear the possibility of a tyranny rising in the country in the next 50 to 100 years. Let me tell you something, Piers. The fact that my grandparents and great-grandparents in Europe didn’t fear that is why they’re now ashes in Europe. This kind of leftist revisionist history where there’s no fear of democracy going usurpatious or tyrannical, is just that. It’s fictitious.

  • Adela Wagner

    @[email protected] In actual societal breakdowns, a lone guy with a gun inevitably falls victim to…ten guys with guns. They never realize that……
    —-BEST Argument FOR MULTIPLE Semi-Automatics EVER!!

    • Frustrated Teacher

      The other argument here is that an UNARMED guy falls victim to ONE guy with a gun…or who is stronger. I’ll take the gun and my chances against others rather than high-sounding ideals with little basis in reality.

    • http://twitter.com/TruPundit BristolGOP Backup

      Sounds like an argument to organize into militia.

  • Catchance

    The phrase “Nancy Boy” is an interesting one, and I believe it perfectly describes those effete, girly-men, like Josh Marshall, who are too afraid of getting hurt to want to learn how to defend themselves and their families. “Coward” is another good phrase, and perhaps describes them even better. They are the ones who lie down and give up at the first sign of trouble, or worse, collaborate with the enemy, and then later bleat that they had no choice. They would do well in France.

  • http://twitter.com/CoFemale Cuz Grandma Says

    The reason many on the left can’t see their rights being taken away is because they never believed in or would defend the Constitution in the first place. They all live in this fantasy world that Obama will take care of them and won’t let anything bad happen to them. Tell that to the Liberals still waiting for help how many months after the Sandy hit. They expected Obama to step in and make things right. Good luck with that fantasy. You also think the police or fire department will respond to save your ass during a catastrophe. Think again. Societies can fall just look at Greece – riots in the streets.

    You liberals can live in your own little bubble world, but when the shit hits the fan, don’t come whining to me.

    • ZoriahShepard

      Well said. May I add that they feel entitled to that help yet don’t want to lift a finger to support it.

      • Sheerie Knoll

        Of course they feel “entitled”, they paid their taxes to support it. That is the fallacy in their thinking.

        • Richard Helmling

          I think that’s what’s called the social contract, actually.

    • TundraThunder

      The Republicans are being blamed for the delay in the funds for the Sandy victims, but they were trying to get $40 billion of pork removed from the legislation, but had to pass it anyway. Meanwhile, Nero fiddled (Obama went on vacation).

    • Richard Helmling

      You all are planning your lives and want our legislative priorities to be based on a scenario where you end up being Mad Maxs protecting yourselves in a post-apocalyptic wasteland of pure individualism…and it’s the left who are in a “fantasy world?”

      • john lecorchick

        Very dramatic, Dick! Honestly, we simply dont want are rights stripped away, thats all

      • SDN

        All we actually want is to be left alone to live our own lives; Copperheads like you prefer slavery.

  • Joseph Phillips

    Most telling – waiting for the police to do their job. Classic Left thinking: someone else will take care of me. Having a gun (and knowing how to use it properly) is part of the individual responsibility to take care of yourself.

    • Frustrated Teacher

      Sure worked in New Orleans…wait!

    • http://www.theconservativevoices.com/ dmacleo

      let others do the dirty work they deign themselves too good to do.

  • Danny Wheeler

    Bravo, Schlinchter!

  • Steve_J

    Over the years one of the things I’ve noticed about the police is they, 99% of the time, arrive at the scene well after the crime is complete.

    • http://www.facebook.com/chris.link.90 Chris Link

      because when seconds matter the police are only minutes away

    • http://www.facebook.com/chris.link.90 Chris Link

      because when seconds matter the police are only minutes away

  • Andy Jacobson

    During the 1992 LA Riots that were set off by a court ruling the blacks set out to burn the city down, there were no police around to protect anybody, the fire dept. could not put out fires because they were being shot at and citizens that had the best chance were armed citizens!

    Businesses were one of the favorites to be torched and the ones that survived were the ones where business owners were on their roof tops with AR15’s with full mags (yes 30 round mags) among other rifles fending off the anarchists & looters and arsonist’s.

    I lived through that nightmare and it was very real and if anybody doesn’t think it could happen again and this is some kind of movie fantasy they are kidding themselves. These are the same kind of people that did not do well in the 92 Riots, they will always suffer the worst.

    And to that Piers Morgan fool this is a perfectly valid reason to own standard 15,20 & 30 round mags.

    • TundraThunder

      Thank God you came out of that mess okay! If people like Piers Morgan are shot or beaten by looters or other rioters during some civil unrest (oxymoron?), he/they will be complaining there wasn’t anyone there to protect them.

    • Richard Helmling

      “The blacks?” Oh no, there’s no racial dimension to all these fantasies of gun-empowerment. Carry on.

      • john lecorchick

        Why is making a factual assesment of the 92 riots a “racial dimension”? Its depressing that in this country, telling a truth, a fact, will get you labeled a racist…typical leftist bs..you carry on, we see through you.

        • http://www.facebook.com/chris.link.90 Chris Link

          Does anyone care about being called a racist anymore? The term has lost all meaning these days.

        • http://www.facebook.com/chris.link.90 Chris Link

          Does anyone care about being called a racist anymore? The term has lost all meaning these days.

      • SDN

        You mean the racial dimension found in the FBI crime stats?

      • http://www.facebook.com/chris.link.90 Chris Link

        Do you even know what the ’92 riots were about? Obviously not.

      • http://www.facebook.com/chris.link.90 Chris Link

        Do you even know what the ’92 riots were about? Obviously not.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JDFWJK7W5METRYKG4V5IWPAUEE John

    there was a project called “The Minutemen” who hoped to sto pthe tide of illegal immigrants from spillin gover to our country. they were demonized, and very effectively by Columbia University’s Karina Garcia. Then an Arizona Rancher named Robert Krenz was killed by an illegal — murdered by an illegal. Nobody there to protect him then; nobody there to protect anyone else now. Karina — you’ve got blood on your hands. And that’s why people need weapons – -to protect themselves against mobs that come across from Mexico, gangs in general, ones that do wilding in the streets coupled with the knockout game (try doing that to a oldster along a river path in PA (Thun Trail located in Berks County)), and occupy violence in NYC, Cleveland, Oakland, and S.F., and from union mobs in WI and mich, or the myriad of home invaders. And the police? either they do nothing or come after the fact. But, WTF would a Josh Marshall care anyway?

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JDFWJK7W5METRYKG4V5IWPAUEE John

    You know what Josh might be good at leading an all-out assault against? For the abolition of the biathlon in the winter Olympics. You see, there – at the Olympics — there’ll be 99% white people taking part in firing guns. Glorifying guns. Josh, help stop these crazy racists; help stop the madness.

  • Frustrated Teacher

    Since my wife nudged me by buying me the gun safety course for Christmas, it seems pretty clear that SHE expects me to protect her and my family against others with guns. I will gladly do that as one thing I promised in my vows was to protect her (and she is NOT a weak simpering female…she shoots the gun too). One of the first things I bought after I bought a house was an appropriate handgun to use to protect it and those in it. Thank God I haven’t had to use it yet, but better to have it and never use it than to NOT have it and wait for the police!

  • Gallatin

    Josh Marshall @joshtpm 18 Jan 13
    Foregoing convo illustrates how much of extreme gun crowd ideas r based on fantasies of societal collapse & movie fantasies

    So you truly believe what is going on in Syria right now couldn’t happen in the United States? No, joshy you’re living in the fantasy world so you go ahead and remain defenseless maybe we’ll come save your butt, maybe we won’t.

    • Tim George

      I am unwilling to save anyone that wants to make it hard for me to protect my family, they can burn for all I care.

  • George Washington Mclintock

    So, I’m reading this non-fiction book by a Correction Officer working in Maximum Security. Among the cast of characters so far: a man who used a tin can lid to cut open a baby and sexually violated the wound, guy who stabbed an eight-year old girl to death because she tried to shield her father from the beating he was giving him, and a guy who beat,raped, and strangled a woman who refused his advances because she was married. That’s just a selection. There is evil out there. Truly evil people out there, that see guys like Josh Marshall as “resources” that are there for their pleasure and to be used anyway they feel like to meet their needs. What are Josh Marshall and his ilk going to do if they ever meet people like the crackhead who put a teenage girl in a coma so he could steal her purse and get a fix? I hope for the sake of that little boy on Marshall’s page that he never has to find out

  • http://www.lidsamy.com/ Lidsamy

    Kurt Schlichter was awesome. He always is

  • almarquardt

    Christopher Swartout said it best about Liberals being afraid of the world as it is, and assuming it can be made into their ideal: where mankind will never again choose the evil path over the good. Human nature hasn’t changed since the beginning of time, so why do people assume it can be changed in our lifetime? By turning to and depending upon none other than our government?! Talk about delusional.

  • J.N. Ashby

    “But even if it was possible that we could be just as safe with everyone armed as no one armed, I’d still want no one armed.” -John Marshall, member of the non-gun tribe.

    First: It’s “even if it WERE possible.”

    Second: You can’t tell me what I can and can’t have. I don’t have a gun, but I’m thinking I should get one, if only out of spite.

    Third: Not to get all Godwin’s Law, but Poland was a member of the “non-not using cavalry anymore tribe” in 1939. That worked pretty well.

  • AaronHarrisinAlaska

    The point of the 2A was to create a militia that would ensure the Feds didn’t have a monopoly on force, to protect the nation as a whole, and ensure the freedom of each individual state. By owning a fire arm, yes, your are protecting your neighborhood and the constitution.

  • http://pennyrobinsonfanclub.net/ PennyRobinsonFanClub

    LOL, I betcha that most of the time twatface up there enjoys cursing out the military as bloodthirsty babykillers.

  • https://twitter.com/davidjkramer DavidKramer

    The left has to give billions to their cronies to prepare for the next Sandy, yet someone preparing to defend themselves during the next Sandy is crazy. Lefty logic for you!

  • $4338991

    A liberal-statist idea of self-defense (stealing a line from “Aliens” after Sgt. Apone collected their magazines): “What are we suppose to use, harsh language?” lib’s answer: Yes! no guns! I hate lib-statist

  • Richard Helmling

    The idea that your guns could protect you from “tyranny” is absurd. This is not 1791. If you tried to fight against a modern military force with your hunting rifles, even if there were a few AR15s in the collection, you’d be doomed. Look at what insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan have been reduced to–roadside bombs and suicide attacks–and you get a peek at how effective your response to tyrany would be. Sorry lone-gunmen “alpha” males with dreams of defending your homesteads from the black helicopters, I’m afraid Josh Marshall is right: your best defense is a civil society governed by the constitution…maybe one without so many guns floating around, as a matter of fact.

    • john lecorchick

      Good idea Dick! Let us just throw up our arms and bow to the feet of the federal govt.. They will take care of us, cradle to grave! You are proof “the wussification of America project” is alive and well, stronger than ever.. God have mercy on us, for we know not what we do.

    • Gallatin

      You go ahead and roll over to tyranny, I choose not to.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/44F4AB4VSCTOCHBMBG4ZWWD5OU Laurel

      Because you only think of tyranny in one sense. Tyranny comes in many forms to real thinkers. Someone invading your home and robbing you at gunpoint and making you watch while he commits other crimes is performing acts of tyranny.

      But yes you should be ready always to stand up against all acts of tyranny.

  • puggish

    Speaking as a woman, I am SO damn tired of whiny lefty pansy-assed metrosexual males.

    This whole gun debate is separating the men from the boys in more ways than one.

    And that guy with the gun in Penney’s? Ooohhhh yeah. :)

  • Gekk

    Reading Josh’s post I’m struck by his lack of knowledge…

    “it was clear from the piece that they were in a neighborhood that is not used to seeing people carrying guns, let alone assault rifles.”

    By “Assault” rifle, Josh means “Rifle that he thinks looks scary” not “rifle that is in any way meaningfully more dangerous than any other semi-automatic rifle”.

    So basically, if he’s scared to see it, it’s an “assault” rifle… I suspect my pellet gun is an assault rifle as well by Josh’s definitions.

  • Julie Pascal

    Marshall: “But gets weird when people actually think ther part of militia or defending constitution”

    I think that a lot of people have this reaction. I wonder how much of that perception of “weirdness” is from looking at everything through an emotional lens. Someone being “up in arms” and “hot” really is sort of weird. The Constitutional, militia, and “defending against tyranny” concern is intellectual. It’s “cold”. Understanding the need (and consequences) for a respected and armed people is cerebral, not emotional. (Not wanting our guns taken away certainly has an emotional component.)

    To people for whom everything is emotional, talk about defending against the government, the clear purpose of the 2nd Amendment, seems like crazy talk.

    What is the solution for that?

  • http://boogieforward.us/ K-Bob

    So that whole, 20th Century thing can be safely forgotten, now that societal collapse can’t happen anymore.

    They must have passed some sort of law making societal collapse illegal.