#TheyFeelPain, but: White House vows to veto ‘pain-capable’ abortion bill

In its coverage of the “Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act,” which is headed to the House floor tomorrow, the New York Times was careful to note that the idea that a fetus can feel pain after 20 weeks is a “scientifically disputed theory.” Pro-lifers, though, used the #TheyFeelPain hashtag today to pressure legislators to at the very least address that theory during a meeting of the House Rules Committee.

Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-N.Y.) was among those scientists disputing the notion of the unborn feeling pain.

Rep. Michael Burgess (R-Texas), a practicing OB/GYN before he took office, offered his personal experience.

Nadler’s opinion was rendered moot by his colleague Rep. Louise Slaughter (D-N.Y.).

The White House issued a statement this afternoon saying that President Obama would veto the bill were it to reach his desk, explaining that, as a “direct challenge” to Roe v. Wade, it expresses contempt for women’s health and women’s rights as well as for the Constitution itself. The statement also reiterates the Democrats’ stance that “government should not inject itself into decisions best made between a woman and her doctor.”

While that sounds like a direct call to repeal Obamacare, we’re not counting on it.

  • sybilll

    So, if not aborted, what does that “pain-feeling fetus” become? A toaster oven, a kite, a dolphin? You baby killing liberals sicken me.

    • CombatDiver

      C’mon Sybill, everybody knows that a “pain-feeling fetus” becomes a Buick Skylark.

      • Noah

        I myself was almost a leafblower.

        • Grandma HeadInjury

          That was genius! I literally laughed out loud…

          • Noah

            well, how does one laugh figuratively??

          • Grandma HeadInjury

            Good point, but so many people say they “LOL’d” when all they did was grin. I was clarifying.

            Have a great!
            *tips hat*

          • Noah

            did you really like the comment or were you being sarcastic?

          • Grandma HeadInjury

            I truly did. No sarcasm.

    • Jayve

      And yet the Times notes that isn’t scientifically proven. You are dead right how sick they are. They obviously think that either the nerve system kicks in when the baby is passing through the birth canal or they just don’t care. I am 100% sure it is the latter because, you know….woman’s choice. The wrath of God will descend on these soulless sub-humans.

    • Elaine

      So now we see who the real Extremists are, wanting to kill a baby that is 5 months developed and can feel all that pain. This is not a sequester; this is a human life! It shouldn’t hurt and it should not be allowed. EVER.

  • radjahshelduck

    “Rep. Slaughter using the tired talking point that men are not allowed to make any laws on #abortion because they’re not women.”
    So I guess she’d favor repeal of Roe v. Wade as it was made by an all male panel of judges?

    • lainer51

      How ironic her name is SLAUGHTER

    • Damien Johnson

      thanks for that info, adding it to something I’m working on.

    • Elaine

      Even ROE wants to reverse Roe V Wade and says she was manipulated and used to advance the liberal agenda. She is 100% pro life now.

  • http://pinterest.com/j0s1395/ Josephine (D)

    These rats will do to anything to protect the “right” to “choose,” even though the procedure hurts both women and unborn babies.

    • Jill

      I honestly believe that the considerations of mother and child aren’t in the forefront of their minds.

      • Red Fred

        Maybe we NEED to declare WAR on a woman so irresponsible she can’t be bothered with birth control, OR plan B, and continues on her way unmoved by a pregnancy until after 20 weeks! SICK to death of this dismissive attitude of the infant, and the BIG MONEY abortion providers rake in.

  • CDUB

    War against women those evil republican men…………… Let me as a woman choose to murder a baby. Geeeshh. No matter how far along I am, 5, 6 , 7 months…. what’s the big deal you meanies. I don’t deserve to be punished.

    • Elaine

      I think this country started to go down the tubes with the legalization of abortion. The manipulation and devaluation of human life has changed our culture in so many negative ways. I think the war on women was started back then by irresponsible men and global population control enthusiasts. Fits in nicely with Agenda 21, though.

  • adam

    Maybe this is why Liberals don’t like talking about Chicago gun violence… they just see it as late term abortions.

  • Jennifer

    So agree with the tweet from “Reaganomics”. If a woman can’t “choose” before 5 months have elapsed, what exactly is she waiting for??? Sickening.

    • Sally

      Generally she’s trying to scrape together enough money for an abortion, plus travel costs because all her local clinics have been closed, plus accommodation for the mandatory waiting period, plus money for the medically unnecessary ultrasound that is required by law in many states. Want to reduce late abortion? Stop putting barriers in the way of early ones.

      • Noah

        by “barriers” do you mean “regulations”??

        • Sally

          I mean regulations that have no medical basis. Such as the TRAP laws which require abortion clinics that hand out the abortion pill to have corridors wide enough for a hospital trolley, even though no surgery takes place there. Or the state laws that say women must have ultrasounds before abortion, even if their doctor does not recommend it. Or the arbitrary waiting periods between consultation and abortion, which go into pause mode on the weekends for no apparent reason. Regulations that are generally unsupported by medical organizations and are purely designed to make early abortion more difficult to access, therefore increasing demand for late abortion.

          • Noah

            tell that to Doctor Gosnell (formerly of Philadelphia). He seemed to get a lot of business. I guess those regulations shouldn’t be in place??

          • Sally

            Gosnell broke the regulations. He got business because above-board clinics that actually cared about women had closed down. That’s what happens when you restrict abortion – it moves into the hands of criminals.

          • mike_in_kosovo

            He got business because above-board clinics that actually cared about women had closed down.

            Cite.

            That’s what happens when you restrict abortion

            Cite for that, too.

          • Noah

            BUUUULLLLLSHHHHHIIIIIIITTTTTT!!
            I looked up “abortion clinics in Philadelphia” and looked on the Planned Parenthood website and there were dozens of places. Yeah, okay. All the other clinics were shut down because of draconian regulations. I guess Gosnell must’ve been the only game in town, right? I wonder how those poor enslaved women in Philadelphia are doing now that Gosnell is in jail and there are absolutely No abortion clinics left open? Who will get rid of the babies that absolutely nobody wants??? the horror, the horror.

          • Sally

            And how many of those PP clinics provide abortion at the late gestations that Gosnell did? Every time you bring down the time limit, that’s more business into the hands of criminals.

          • Elaine

            That’s so not true. The culture of abortion and the callousness with which liberals present it to young women in crisis as the solution to their “problem” is pathetic! They have no problem with abortion being the best form of birth control. Even the easy access, at a very young age, to the morning after pill, encourages promiscuous and dangerous behavior. It’s like saying’ go ahead’ we’ve got you back, with this simple solution, a pill. What happens when they contract an STD or have an abortion that leaves them sterile? This is what happens when there are no consequences for your actions. Gosnell’s practice was encouraged by pro abortion advocates, even knowing it was illegal. They believe that women should be able to kill their baby any time as long as it is inside of her. Obama, his administration and Planned Parenthood believe that, too. That’s sick and EXTREME!

          • Noah

            dunno. you tell me. how many of those PP clinics did provide late gestation abortions??

          • gekkobear

            Pennsylvania has a 24 week limit…

            How many provide abortions AFTER THE LAW declares them illegal? I’d guess “none” because later-term abortion in Philadelphia are illegal after the child could be delivered and live… That was part of the problem with Gosnell; he broke that law too.

            How many do you think “should” take a viable baby and kill it? I mean Gosnell clearly thought “aborting” babies that could survive was good; and he might have been the only game in town for illegal late-term abortions.

            It’s like if only one doctor will help you butcher your baby after it’s born… do we need to leave him open too as other clinics won’t help with that “problem”?

            When your baby can survive without the mother if we’d just deliver it… why is killing the child still a “choice” that only the mother should make?

          • Sally

            Very late-term abortion can be done by basically inducing labor. You do that in a properly regulated clinic and the child, if born alive, can be moved to a hospital and cared for. But if you declare late-term abortion illegal, no-one is ever going to let a baby come out alive from one of the illegally operating abortion clinics for fear of being found out.

            Demand for abortion doesn’t go away because it’s made illegal; criminals out to make money will happily step in to fill the void. Demand for late-term abortions could, however, be reduced by making early abortion (and contraception) easier to access and more affordable.

          • gekkobear

            Demand for hit men don’t go away because they’re illegal… people still want other people dead.

            But we’re not going to legalize killing people are we?

          • TexSizzle

            It’s already legal, if the people haven’t been born yet.

          • S Davidson

            You’re talking in circles.

          • S Davidson

            You’re talking in circles.

          • MissJames

            I can’t even fathom how anyone could kill a baby at 24 weeks. I just posted that my youngest son (adopted) was born at 25 weeks and is now 11 years old. He weighed 1lb. 7oz. and it took an enormous amount of effort from the NICU staff to save him. Why is a baby in the womb considered any less worthy ?

          • S Davidson

            You just said that the late term abortions were a result of there being no clinics available. Which is it? You can’t have it both ways.

          • S Davidson

            You just said that the late term abortions were a result of there being no clinics available. Which is it? You can’t have it both ways.

          • NRPax

            Oh noes! They will have to take responsibility for themselves!

          • MissJames

            He didn’t just break regulations ,he murdered babies. He was found guilty in a court of law. He’s a murderer . First do no harm? yeah,right.

      • Bathing Suit Area

        The women who have to wait to save up money could undoubtedly get their abortions earlier in the pregnancy if they were assisted with government funds. I assume everyone who wishes to impose these time limits is in favor of any measure to help women keep to them.

        • MissJames

          Help is there. It’s called adoption . I would encourage those who talk the talk ,walk the walk. Consider becoming a foster or adoptive parent .
          If a woman is willing to kill the baby she can feel moving within her,why not wait a bit longer and place for adoption ,instead ? There’s even government funding for giving birth if you can’t afford it. .

      • Bathing Suit Area

        The women who have to wait to save up money could undoubtedly get their abortions earlier in the pregnancy if they were assisted with government funds. I assume everyone who wishes to impose these time limits is in favor of any measure to help women keep to them.

  • brewerandpatriot

    You get an illegal alien drunk enough, they can’t feel pain either…just sayin’…

  • detroit19

    I wake up, every day, amazed that God did not take us all out, overnight…we SO do not deserve His mercy and patience learning the Golden Rule: ‘Do unto others as ye would have done unto you”. Ashamed to be a ‘human’ being these days…

    • grais

      I don’t believe God judges us as a group.

      • detroit19

        Pray so…but the ‘great flood’ and Sodom and Gomorrah come to mind…

        • Damien Johnson

          but He promised never to do that again. To bad the symbol for that got all corrupted now.

          • https://twitter.com/BlissTabitha Tabitha Bliss

            Never to do a flood again, but we’re assured the earth will be judged / destroyed by fire.

        • AMSilver

          Prior to destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham asked if God would spare the cities if he could find 50 righteous people living there. God said he would spare the cities for the sake of the righteous, if they were there. Abraham, unable to find the 50, talked down the number to 45, then 40, 30, 20 and finally 10. At each stage, the Lord promised to spare the cities from destruction if the righteous could be found. Our nation is being protected because of those righteous among us. This makes it our duty to try and act as the refining and purifying salt of the earth that God has commanded we be, to try and help this nation turn away from its abominations.

          • KindlyRonin

            word AM silver. Well said.

    • S Davidson

      We deserve whatever He decides to give us.

    • S Davidson

      We deserve whatever He decides to give us.

  • grais

    What possesses them to cling to the ridiculous notion that a woman has no choice in whether or not to be pregnant?

    Ya know that old saying regarding smoking? Your right to smoke ends at my nose?
    Well, your reproductive rights end when you conceive your child. Your reproductive RESPONSIBILITY doesn’t end until you can no longer reproduce.
    GROW THE FRIG UP

    • CryingGlitterEagle

      Does that include rape? Or incest?

      • grais

        Rape? Of course not, as should be obvious.
        Incest? You mean an incestuous choice made by adults? Why would it?

        • CryingGlitterEagle

          You said: “What possesses them to cling to the ridiculous notion that a woman has no choice in whether or not to be pregnant?”

          • grais

            Yes, I know.
            aaaaaand…?

          • CryingGlitterEagle

            Obviously there are some women who don’t have any choice when it comes to being pregnant.

          • grais

            Yes, women who are raped.
            We already settled that.

          • Joe W.

            So get your damned abortion in the first month if you were raped. Why wait FIVE MONTHS????!!!!

          • Jill

            Do women often choose a nearly third trimester abortion in those cases?

          • https://twitter.com/BlissTabitha Tabitha Bliss

            Rape only counts for 1% of abortions… And the bill has provisions for rape, medical necessity, etc. in it.

          • Elaine

            Exactly, and Pelosi dares to say we are “politicizing” the Gosnell case? http://angrywhitedude.com/2013/06/pelosi-the-embodiment-of-pure-evil/

      • detroit19

        Pretty sure we’re talking about abortion as birth control, not rape or incest. NO excuse for those too lazy to take advantage of We, the People, to get their freebies. NO EXCUSE.

      • aegean1

        Why should the child be punished because the parent(s) screwed up?

        • Elaine

          Long ago, I used to think pro choice was only the choice to get PREGNANT or NOT. Then I did research on born children of rape. Made me change my mind. :)

      • Elaine

        You liberals are unreal. Pelosi complains about pro life groups politicizing Gosnell, since he is supposedly the rare exception and not like MOST PP clinics. You guys ALWAYS use the rare cases of rape or incest to politicize in debates and that’s ok? We always answer that one and you still come back with it. You are such hypocrites.

        • Bathing Suit Area

          As opposed to using the rare cases of late term abortions to try to shut down all of them, that’s perfectly ok.

      • TexSizzle

        What other crimes are there for which you’d kill the child for the crime of the parent?

        • Bathing Suit Area

          What other crimes are there where you’d ensure that the victim’s body continued to be violated for an additional nine months?

  • waltermitty2012

    Dr. Bernard Nathanson helped found the National Association to Repeal Abortion Laws (NARAL) and served as the medical director for the largest abortion clinic in America. After recognizing the error in his ways, Dr. Nathanson converted to Catholicism and became a pro-life supporter. He has been quoted as saying that abortion is “the most atrocious holocaust in the history of the United States.”

    This is what Democrats want to defend?

    • https://twitter.com/BlissTabitha Tabitha Bliss

      Norma McCorvey (aka. Jane Roe) also converted & is a pro-life activist..
      Well, as each poll taken proves, our side clearly has more coming over to it from the other side & that’s great news..Hopefully it will mean the soon death of the worst SCOTUS decision ever made.

      • Elaine

        She tells how she felt manipulated and used by the liberal women in advancing the abortion agenda. How sad. Thank God she was able to give birth to her child or she would have to carry that guilt, as well.

  • Small fry

    The left protects the spotted owl, but not the unborn child.

    • Bathing Suit Area

      Nobody is asking you to let an owl live inside your body.

  • http://www.lidsamy.com/ Lidsamy

    gross

  • ElizCM

    Speaking as both a woman and a medical student, not only can they feel pain, but their hearts are beating and it is possible for the baby to survive if delivered at 21w (albeit a low chance, but medical technology is advancing every day and 20w viability is not that unrealistic in the near future). If they Dems want to dispute the extent of nervous system development, why not talk about viability? I think “if it could save just one life” would apply here.

  • Damien Johnson

    Lol, woman’s right to choose. Do they mean choices like

    birth control patch

    birth control pill

    morning after pill

    force the male to wear condom (no glove no love!); includes spermicidal condoms

    spermicides

    vaginal condoms

    diaphrams

    IUD

    tubes tied

    nuva ring

    sterilization

    or maybe NEVER OPENING YOUR LEGS/WHIPPING IT OUT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

  • TJ

    Would it take 5 months to report the crime of rape and/or incest to the police, why would it take 5 months to have an abortion. #commonground for the 1%-3% of abortions from rape.

    • Bathing Suit Area

      Is just claiming rape enough, or do they have to wait for a conviction?

      • TJ

        Do you have to wait for conviction on the drunk driver who smashed you car before you can get it fixed. Do you have to wait for a conviction of the murderer before you bury the dead.

  • nc

    ‘…the New York Times was careful to note that the idea that a fetus can feel pain after 20 weeks is a “scientifically disputed theory.” ‘

    This is rich, coming from the same folks who insist that Global Warming is “settled science.”

  • teamfrazzled

    But raped women need more than 5 months to do something about it? Over the counter Plan B should eliminate just about all pregnancy due to rape so liberals should be able to retire that lame argument pretty soon. Rape accounts for less than 2% of all abortions in the first and nearly zero of late term abortions in the first place yet liberals drag that out like it justifies the slaughter of millions whose only crime was mommy woke up and decided their existence was inconvenient today and wants them dead. But I’m guessing a raped woman doesn’t need 5 months to mull that over – which is probably why they aren’t the ones having late term abortions.

  • Skulander

    #TheyFeelPain?
    Oh really?
    Well, not before at least 24 weeks. Why to antichoicers keep lying?

    “Fetuses aged 24 weeks or less do not have the brain connections to feel pain, according to a working party report published this week by the UK Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG).” http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19089-24week-fetuses-cannot-feel-pain.html#.Ub_b8vZai78

    “The current consensus of scientists and medical groups (such as Britain’s Royal College of Obstetrics and Gynaecology) is that conscious awareness of pain – and therefore the “true” experience of pain – cannot occur in fetuses until at least 26 weeks gestation (if at all).” http://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/articles/fetal-pain.shtml

    “A new report from the U.K.’s Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) concludes that, before 24 weeks, nerve endings in the brains of fetuses aren’t sufficiently developed to experience pain. The findings, based on a review of recent studies examining fetal development and capacity for pain, undermine the argument for a Nebraska law passed in April prohibiting most abortions after 20 weeks’ gestation.http://healthland.time.com/2010/06/25/report-fetus-cannot-feel-pain-before-24-weeks/#ixzz2WXNLw7l1

    “The human foetus cannot feel pain before 24 weeks, according to an official review of scientific evidence, contradicting one argument that anti-abortion campaigners have used for reducing the termination limit” http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7853321/Foetus-cannot-feel-pain-before-24-weeks.html

    “But according to the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists’ new study, an abortion at week 24 wouldn’t hurt the fetus. The unique combination of chemicals in amniotic fluid keeps it in a state of suspended, “sleeplike unconsciousness,” and its neural pathways are insufficiently developed to feel pain.” http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2010/06/why_a_new_study_on_fetal_pain.html

    However, as always, count on fetus fetishists to keep lying and distort the truth!

    • JR48

      Darling, you know jack about the subject of pain or the studies thereof. The jury is still out but studies have also shown that fetuses exposed to noxious/painful stimuli in the womb can experience negative neurodevelopmental effects. They used to do surgery on newborns, saying that the newborn doesn’t feel pain, until they were able to prove otherwise.

      When you talk about fetal pain, it’s not a political thing but a physiological/developmental thing and you might want to tread more carefully here if you have any respect at all for science.

      The end result of this ‘declaration’ is not merely political, it shapes healthcare for all babies, not just those that are aborted. You’re spouting like you know something, yet I doubt that you’ve taken a moment to ask, if you were pregnant and they wanted to do surgery on your 22 week old’fetus’, are you saying that you’d forgo anesthesia because ‘the kid won’t feel it anyway’?

      You’re simplifying a very complicated thing.

      • Skulander

        Indeed. Fetal pain is NOT a political thing. It’s a scientific matter.

        So why are antichoicers lying about when fetal pain sets in? Why are they passing unconstitutional bans at 20 weeks when a fetus clearly cannot feel pain at this stage?

        • Catchance

          Why are you quoting “facts” from articles written over 3 years ago? Why are you quoting “facts” from pro-abortion sites only? For each site you give I can give you another showing just the opposite conclusion.

          http://www.abortionfacts.com/

          http://metro.co.uk/2013/06/06/unborn-babies-practise-showing-pain-while-in-the-womb-3830651/

          http://www.doctorsonfetalpain.com/

          The thing is, you actually aren’t interested in whether a baby in the womb feels pain… you’re interested in your ideology only. It’s no wonder that Democrats are called the Party of Death.

          • Skulander

            And why shouldn’t I? This study hasn’t been refuted and its findings are still valid and supported by every major and credible medical organisation: fetuses do not feel pain before 24 weeks, and certainly not at 20 weeks.

            Why do antis keep lying? It’s insulting and women deserve better than lies.

          • djshawman

            Anti-Choice? I’m all for choice…Choose birth control not murder. Why do you pro-murderers (or shall I be clever like you and dub you all anti-lifers) always try to justify your barbaric beliefs with studies that help you sleep better at night. These are studies that, as someone has pointed out, have been disputed. So basically, you don’t know. You are OK with taking that chance because, hey a study said the baby didn’t feel pain. These are human babies not vegetables. You act as though you’re talking about a carrot for goodness sake.

          • Noah

            adorable how you refer to pro-lifers as “antichoicers”. Do you call pro-choicers “anti-fetusers”?

          • Skulander

            I know, right? I also find the moniker “antichoice” for folks like you adorable.

            Quite accurate, too. You’re against choice. You’re pro-control and anti-woman.

            Pro-life? Not so much.

          • Noah

            piss up a frigging rope!!

          • grais

            That’s not nearly as adorable as “fetus fetishists” in the minds of baby butchers.

          • Noah

            my question would be this:
            Is it okay to end someone/something’s life if your sole defense is “well, it doesn’t feel pain”??

          • grais

            They won’t let that be their sole defense, because…WarOnWomen.

          • Bathing Suit Area

            Not at all. Many of us have children, and all of us were one fetuses. We just don’t think women should be forced to give birth then they don’t want to, even if they *GASP* choose to have sex.

          • Noah

            you ain’t gonna win over many sympathizers if you keep calling everyone a “fetus fetishist” or “antichoicers”.

          • Noah

            you ain’t gonna win over many sympathizers if you keep calling everyone a “fetus fetishist” or “antichoicers”.

        • Noah

          please. this is what is known as “having your cake and eating it too.” If it was well known that a fetus could feel pain at 20 weeks, would you still be for abortion??

          • Skulander

            In principle, no. But why can’t ALL women access abortion in a timely manner? Why do some women have to struggle so much to come up with the money to pay for the procedure? Why, in the first place, are antichoicers so against sex education and contraception?

            Besides, abortions after 20 weeks will always be necessary under some circumstances. What about the life of the mother? What about non-viable pregnancies? THIS is the reality of late-term abortions. Often they are abortions of WANTED pregnancies that have gone awfully wrong. What about that?

          • Noah

            this is the first frigging time you’ve even brought that up.
            Of course there are pregnant women that wished to carry their baby to full term but medical issues caused them to consider that both their life and the life of the baby would be in danger and that they had to make the hard choice.

          • Skulander

            Yes, of course there are. Have you considered the impact of this ban on those women, which, I’ll remind you, are OVERWHEMLINGLY the cases stated above? I.e.: “Besides, abortions after 20 weeks will always be necessary under some circumstances. What about the life of the mother? What about non-viable pregnancies? THIS is the reality of late-term abortions. Often they are abortions of WANTED pregnancies that have gone awfully wrong. What about that?”

            But it’s oh so much simpler to just call women murderers, sluts, irresponsible and dumb, I suppose.

    • Guest

      Go to you tube & watch the video “The Silent Scream” which shows an abortion done via ultrasound & you will change your mind as it becomes quite clear the fetus is attempting to survive as it swims away from the instruments. If they react in that way to instruments invading their space, I have zero problem believing they feel pain.
      Oh & most doctors that do prenatal surgery would disagree. There’s plenty that have gone on record with the fact they can feel pain from an even earlier stage as they’ve seen it…Which is why they now give the unborn anesthesia prior to / during procedures. That is now standard practice for all prenatal surgeries.

      • Skulander

        Yeah, heard about it. It so happens that it’s a big fat lie. Like most of what antichoicers want you to gobble up.

        http://prochoicechristian1.blogspot.ca/2009/11/silent-scream-is-lie.html

        Come back to me when you have facst?

        • Noah

          that’s funny. you’re funny.
          Babies can react to stimuli. Babies born premature, including ones born as early as 24 weeks, have shown the ability to be startled by loud noises. But apparently they don’t react to pain, according to you.

          • Skulander

            LIke I said, no. Fetuses can’t feel pain before 24 weeks.

            This is a scientific fact.

          • TexSizzle

            About as much a scientific fact as your religion of anthropogenic climate change, the name of which keeps changing because the science isn’t there.

            And the term “anti-choicer” is another of your big lies. We favor choice in most things, just not the ability to kill your unborn baby in cold blood. That desire on your part is why we call you anti-lifers.

          • Skulander

            Yeah… Ony hard-core conservative dispute climate change.

            Anyways. The fact that the fetus cannot feel pain before 24 weeks is not disputed. It’s an acknowledged, scientific fact.

    • mike_in_kosovo

      However, as always, count on fetus fetishists to keep lying and distort the truth!

      Speaking of lying and distorting the truth, it’s been well-proven that there is a reaction to painful stimuli well before the 24 weeks mentioned.

      Of course, admitting that would cut into the amount of money the baby blenders could pull in, now wouldn’t it?

      • Skulander

        Um, no. Actually the fetus cannot feel pain before 24 weeks, at the earliers.

        This is not ideology. Those are facts that have been scientifically proved.

        Why do fetus fetishists keep on lying about this? Do they think lying will get them anywhere?

        • mike_in_kosovo

          If the babies can’t feel pain, why do they react to the stimuli, genius? Maybe you should re-read your sources and note where they make mention of ‘feeling pain as an adult does’.

          They’re shading the conversation so they can make money from women a few weeks further along.

          The lying and ideology is all from your side, as usual… or does ‘if it saves one life’ only count once they’re out of the womb?

          • Skulander

            Well yes, babies can feel pain.

            But we’re talking about fetuses here. Fetuses cannot feel pain before 24 weeks. Like I’ve explained to you, this is not shading the conversation. This is scientifically proven facts.

            Why the lies? Why are you allergic to facts when it comes to women rights?

            Like I said, 90% of abortions are done in the 1st trimester. Do you really want women to be forced to carry unviable pregnancies? Or to be forced to continue a pregnancy that is dangerous for them? THOSE are the women who are harmed by extreme antichoice laws.

          • mike_in_kosovo

            But we’re talking about fetuses here. Fetuses cannot feel pain before 24
            weeks. Like I’ve explained to you, this is not shading the
            conversation. This is scientifically proven facts.

            Just like the pain response of fetuses younger than 24 weeks is scientifically proven fact.

            The lies are, as usual, from the baby-blending side.

            Like I said, 90% of abortions are done in the 1st trimester.

            I must have missed how 20 weeks gestation falls into the first trimester. Please, *do* enlighten us on how that happens and how they’ll be affected by this law.

          • Skulander

            Keep lying all you want. Pain doesn’t set in before AT LEAST 24 weeks. This is fact.

            When have I said the 1st trimester ended at 20 weeks? All I’ve said is that 90% of abortions occured in the 1st trimester. I.e.: before week 12. Actually, only 1-2% of abortions occur after 20 weeks, for medical reasons explained above.

          • mike_in_kosovo

            Keep lying all you want. Pain doesn’t set in before AT LEAST 24 weeks. This is fact.

            Saying it over and over again doesn’t make it truth, sku. Pain response happens before 24 weeks.

            When have I said the 1st trimester ended at 20 weeks?

            Well, you’re going on and on about how this law is going to force untold numbers of women into back-alley abortion clinics… guess you were just lying about the effect.

            Actually, only 1-2% of abortions occur after 20 weeks, for medical reasons explained above.

            Then why all the hyperventilating over it? Methinks the baby blender doth protest overmuch.

          • Skulander

            Yes indeed. Very small number. But 2 things here:

            1) Antichoice folks want to ban ALL abortions. We must put an end to this nonsense immediately.

            2) This law does not allow for any exceptions for rape or incest, or the life of the mother. Which is despicable. It will also force women to carry unviable pregnancies.

            And yes. This unjust law WILL force women into back-alley abortions.

            And no. Fetal pain doesn’t set in before 24 weeks. Saying it does don’t change scentific facts.

          • mike_in_kosovo

            1) Antichoice folks want to ban ALL abortions. We must put an end to this nonsense immediately.

            And that’s another lie…because I don’t want to ban all abortions. Maybe you should quit looking at everything as black and white.

            2) This law does not allow for any exceptions for rape or incest, or the life of the mother. Which is despicable. It will also force women to carry unviable pregnancies.

            That’s another lie – unfortunately for your argument (and credibility), the bill states:

            (B) Subject to subparagraph (C), subparagraph (A) does not apply if—

            (i) in reasonable medical judgment, the abortion is necessary to save the life of a pregnant woman whose life is endangered by a physical disorder, physical illness, or physical injury, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself, but not including psychological or emotional conditions; or

            (ii) the pregnancy is the result of rape, or the result of incest against a minor, if the rape has been reported at any time prior to the abortion to an appropriate law enforcement agency, or if the incest against a minor has been reported at any time prior to the abortion to an appropriate law enforcement agency or to a government agency legally authorized to act on reports of child abuse or neglect.”

          • Skulander

            OF COURSE you want to ban all abortions. Wow, I mean you folks really think women ARE tha stupid.

            The bill does not provide with enough medical exemptions, which I have clearly explained to you. Which is why it should be voted down, and probably will by the Senate. If not, Obama will, and should, veto it because it is dangerous for women and will harm them.

            The greater point here, as well, is ACCESS. Women wait until past 20 weeks because they have no access to abortion care before that time. Hence: Gosnell, their last resort.

            And as a man, what say to you have in this private, medical decision?

          • mike_in_kosovo

            OF COURSE you want to ban all abortions.

            So, now you’re a mind-reader? Amazing.

            The greater point here, as well, is ACCESS. Women wait until past 20 weeks because they have no access to abortion care before that time. Hence: Gosnell, their last resort.

            What??? Are you TRULY that stupid?

            And as a man, what say to you have in this private, medical decision?

            What say did the nine MEN on the Supreme Court have in that private, medical decision, hmm?

          • Skulander

            Those nine men were for women MAKING THEIR OWN DECISIONS. You want to impose YOURS on their bodies. Big difference. Those men trusted women. You don’t.

            And yes, you want to ban all abortions. Now don’t get mad at me because we’ve figured you out!

          • mike_in_kosovo

            “And yes, you want to ban all abortions. Now don’t get mad at me because we’ve figured you out!”

            Ok, so you’re a liar AND delusional. Good to know.

          • Noah

            “Gosnell, their last resort”??? Seriously, if there is one person in this world (aside from Dane Cook) that should never breed, it is you. Gosnell was licensed by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, he wasn’t operating out of an alley!!

          • Skulander

            Yep. Antichoice laws lead to Gosnell. Why do you think women went there? They didn’t have any other safe options. Abortions need to be kept safe and legal so women can access them in a timely manner, and so they don’t need to resort to people like Gosnell.

          • Noah

            ummm, no. you’re dumb. Gosnell was licensed by the state. People went there because they assumed he was safe, because he was (for the cheap seats i’ll say it louder) LICENSED BY THE STATE!!

          • Skulander

            HIs clinic was actually illegal. What he did was illegal. And yes, women assumed it was safe. But even then poor, desperate women (which was his demographic… rich women ALWAYS have a way out, funny how that works uh?) would STILL have went to him because guess what? Being able to have an abortion is a human right.

            As I’ve said, abortions need to be kept safe, accessible and legal so women don’t have to wait past 20 weeks in order to be able to obtain one. Abortion bans lead to Gosnell: ban them and you’ll get more like him. Guaranteed.

          • NRPax

            Ah, so instead of facts we break out class warfare. What a shocker. And no, there is no “human right” to abortion anywhere. Cool attempt at hyperbole though.

          • Skulander

            Class warfare? Sure, yes. I’d agree there’s very much a class warfare going on, linked with this issue. (Because yeah, try to ban abortion for RICH women and see what happens…).

            And yes, there actually IS a human right to abortion. See the U.N. report by Anand Grover about why they need to remain safe and legal.

          • NRPax

            If you are claiming that this law being discussed bans abortion for all women (And you’ve been proven wrong on that already), then logically it is banning abortion for rich women.

            And I live in the United States. The only thing that the UN is good for is employing child prostitutes which might explain why they are interested in having this as a human right.

          • Skulander

            No, it won’t ban all abortions. But it will ban them for women who need them, for medical reasons as it provides way too little exceptions. We all know you want ALL abortions banned and as I’ve said, that would only put women’s lives in danger. You don’t seem to care about that, but guess what? Women DO care about their lives and being able to make their own, personal, private medical decisions without religious ideological interference and antichoice bullcrap.

          • NRPax

            We all know you want ALL abortions banned

            Awww..how cute! You’re a mindreader!

          • Skulander

            Right. Because all those anti-women, anti-contraception, anti-abortion laws passed of late are just a figment of our imagination. Of course.

          • NRPax

            And yet abortion is still legal. How funny. You would think that if things were as bad as your claiming, we’d have to step over corpses in the major cities by now.

          • Skulander

            Legal, yes. Doesn’t necessarily mean accessible. For RICH women it’s accessible and legal.

            Antichoice can’t overturn Roe v. Wade. They know this. So they try to make it impossible for women to obtain an abortion even if, on paper, it SHOULD be legal and SHOULD be accessible.

            Hence: Gosnell.

          • Noah

            How safe was Gosnell’s clinic?

          • Noah

            Except (i’ll repeat for the retarded and hard of hearing) GOSNELL WASNT THE ONLY ABORTION DOCTOR IN TOWN!!!! I would assume that you have the planned parenthood website bookmarked (just a wild shot in the dark), so go to the website and you’ll see plenty of clinics that perform “abortion services” in Northeast Penn.

          • Skulander

            *Sigh*

            Screaming won’t help you make a false statement true.

            Yes. There WERE other clinics. But the point is that women COULD NOT go to these other clinics, for various reasons. (Protestors: for some reason Gosnell had far fewer, lack of money: going to him was cheap), etc. These women also couldn’t get to these legal clinics in time. It’s not rocket science to figure out why he performed later term abortions: poor, desperate women couldn’t get to him earlier. He was willing to break the law. What he did was indeed illegal but economic and social barriers prevented women from accessing safe, legal abortions in a timely manner.

            Ban abortions and, as I’ve said, you’ll only get more Gosnells.

          • Noah

            Why couldn’t these women go to the other clinics??

          • Skulander

            You can read, right?

            Please re-read my last comment.

          • NRPax

            They could have, but finding them means “doing your own research” and that’s “racist.”

          • NRPax

            Abortions can already be accessed in a timely manner and they had options other than Gosnell.

          • Skulander

            Actually, not true. Not for those poor, desperate women who went to Gosnell anyways. Pennsylvania enacted some stringent antichoice laws of late, and these women who went to Gosnell cited the impossibility to access abortion in a timely manner as a reason why they went to him.

            Ban abortions and you’ll get more Gosnell. Abortions are not going anywhere. They should not be life-threatening for women.

          • NRPax

            Ah. So these alleged “poor desperate women” have never heard of other states in the union that they could have gone to. Poor uneducated little things.

            Ban abortions and you’ll get more Gosnell. And yet we have Gosnell and more like him with abortions legal. Funny, that.

          • Skulander

            I now right? All women seeking abortion to you are de facto dumb, stupid and uneducated.

            They went to Gosnell because they couldn’t afford to go to another state. They had no other options. Ban abortions and you’ll get more Gosnell-like clinics. What need to happen are safe, legal, well-regulated clinics (without the antichoice nonsense we see right now) so that Gosnell-like clinics are driven out of business.

            Because as I’ve mentioned to you, abortions aren’t going anywhere, legal or not.

          • NRPax

            Now that’s adorable. When states like Virginia push for “safe well-regulated clinics”, the liberals come out screaming about how this is a violation of human rights or some such nonsense.

          • Skulander

            These laws in Virginia were meant to shut clinics down. Point blank.

            It had absolutely NOTHING to do with making sure clinics comply with reasonable health care standards (which they already do, and are quite happy to do, too).

            Don’t be mad at me because we see right through your little games.

          • NRPax

            Not mad at all. I simply find your viewpoint amusing. Thanks!

          • Noah

            one would think that you’d support regulations on abortion clinics. If you don’t have regular inspections of abortion clinics (which apparently is something Pennsylvania didn’t do since Ridge was governor) you get these type of things. hence: Gosnell.

          • Skulander

            I’ve never said I’m against regulations. Sensible, logical ones by and large ar beneficial.

            But regulations aimed at shutting down clinics will only lead to more Gosnells in shady, illegal, unregulated clinics.

          • Noah

            jeezus, your head is thicker than molasses.
            GOSNELL WASN’T ILLEGAL!!!!!!!!!!

          • Skulander

            Um, sorry but he WAS illegal.

            Why do you think he was tried for murder?

            He was illegal. Keep banning abortions and, just like in the good old days, more women will go to such unregulated, illegal clinics.

          • Noah

            He was tried for murder because he killed a woman. He also killed babies that had already been born. six of them.

          • Skulander

            Indeed.

            How is any of this “legal”?

            As I’ve said I don’t like Gosnells. I want this sort of clinics shut down. But abortion bans will only lead to MORE such clinics.

          • Noah

            His clinic was legal. Your earlier post mentioned that Gosnell’s clinic was (in your words) “illegal”. How could his clinic be illegal if it was licensed by the commonwealth??

          • Skulander

            When have I said his clinic was legal? It wasn’t! What he did was totally illegal and he’s paying the price, as he should.

            But again, ban abortions and more women will go to such illegal clinics who, by definition, fly under the radar. Abortions aren’t going anywhere, that’s for sure. The choice we can make is whether we keep them safe or unsafe for women.

            Banning abortions only make them unsafe.

          • Noah

            you have reading comprehension problems. You most definitely did say his clinic was illegal. It wasn’t illegal. he was licensed. He was legal.

          • Skulander

            No, he was not legal. Why else did he end up in prison? You’re the one having comprehension problems here.

            And again, making sure legal doctors performing abortions are driven away will only open wide the way for shady individuals such as Gosnell. No one wins.

          • Noah

            His clinic-was-legal. Your original claim was that Gosnell was running an illegal clinic that women were forced to go to because nobody else would perform such late -term abortions, didn’t have enough money to go to a real clinic, etc etc etc. His CLINIC was LEGAL!

          • Skulander

            Late term abortions will always be necessary, as I’ve explained to you. ALSO: women need timely access to safe, legal abortion. Most women who went to Gosnell were forced to wait too long not by choice, but because of ridiculous antichoice laws such as those recently put forth in Pennsylvania.

            And if his clinic was legal, why is he in jail, hm?

            And how banning abortions will help women? It will only drive them to MORE such Gosnell-like clinics, to the benefit of no one.

          • Noah

            His clinic was legal. What he did was kill babies that had already been born. THAT is why he is in jail. Not for operating an underground clinic.

          • Skulander

            Yes, and killing babies after birth also isn’t abortion.

            You forgot the bigger question: WHY did these women had to wait so long before accessing a service they SHOULD have access to without undue burden?

            How is making sure less and less women being able to access the service going to benefit anyone? How is this NOT going to lead to only MORE Gosnells?

          • Noah

            These clinics hadn’t been inspected in decades!! That is what will cause more Gosnells.

          • Skulander

            Because you think by driving abortions underground, having shady clinics and shady doctors like Gosnell, things will be better?

            Because you think these illegal, underground clinics as in the good old days will be more regulated? More inspected?

            I’m not against inspections and regulations. But abortion service MUST remain accessible. 87% of U.S. counties do not have ANY abortion provider. That’s hardly “access.”

          • Noah

            that’s true, because not every county needs an abortion clinic! they do just fine in the larger cities of most states.

          • Skulander

            Well that’s valid to a certain extent. In some areas it’s not so bad. In other places it’s ridiculous: think about Mississippi or South Dakota, for instance. There’s much room for improvement there.

          • TexSizzle

            All abortions are unsafe; in every “successful” abortion at least one person dies.

          • Skulander

            Yes, because you obviously don’t care too much about the life of the woman, her needs, her situation, her family.

            She’s apparently not a person to you, and if she dies in an unsafe, botched abortion so the better for you.

          • Noah

            ummm, without regulations you sure as fuck will get more Gosnells. won’t ya??

          • Skulander

            When have I said I want no regulations whatsoever?

          • Noah

            I was just doing what you do: believing that your opponent has the most extremist position. All or nothing.
            when has anyone said “I want to ban all abortions”?? But apparently you seem to think that’s what everyone is saying.

          • Skulander

            You’d have to live in a bubble not to see antichoicers these days aren’t happy with just reasonable, sensible laws. They have their eyes set on the prize: returning women to the dark ages of illegal abortions.

          • Noah

            You seem the type that’d screamed at every regulation against abortion clinics.

          • Skulander

            Well by now, most of these regulations are just ridiculous.

          • TexSizzle

            Fetuses are unborn babies, Herr/Frau Goebbels. Repeating the big lie over and over may work for getting leftists to agree with you, but it won’t for us. Bless your heart.

          • Skulander

            Fetuses happen to be located in a woman’s body. Sorry but you can’t just tell her to STFU for 9 months. Doesn’t work that way.

          • Noah

            I’d say fetuses begin to feel pain the moment they vote democrat. yuck-yuk-yuk-yuk!!

      • Noah

        skulander knows for a fact (fact I tells ya) that fetuses(feti?) do not feel pain, because she communicates with them telepathically. Reminds me of a funny photograph of an obviously irony-challenged lady with the slogan “my baby is pro choice” painted across her bare, pregnant belly.

  • Skulander

    And yep, the White House WILL veto this awful bill. And why? Because, by leaving NO exemptions for the life of the mother (since when do the life, health and well-being of the mother ever comes into play anyways? she’s just an incubator and needs to STFU for 9 months, right?), or in cases of rape or incest, the GOP is showing that it’s not about life they’re concerned, but control of women’s bodies and reproductive rights.

    • Catchance

      And actually YOU know nothing about women’s bodies and reproductive rights if you think women don’t suffer dreadful consequences emotionally (and sometimes physically) from having had an abortion. Our President shows his contempt for motherhood by referring to having a baby as being punished…. I can only assume you feel the same. As far as rape/incest/life of the mother? Those were all valid and legal reasons for abortion BEFORE Roe v Wade. And the truth is, those reasons combined account for less than 1% of abortions. The other 99% is for the convenience of the woman.

      • Skulander

        Yes I actually DO know quite a lot about women reproductive rights and body.

        And no, honey, sorry dear but women do not suffer physically and emotionally from abortions. Most don’t regret it and are ok with their decision, which they felt was the best at this point and time.

        President Obama actually cares more about pregnant women and life than you’ll ever dream of. But nice try. BTW exceptions for rape and incest do not exist at the moment in this awful bill passed through Congress. Which thankfully Obama will most likely veto.

        • mike_in_kosovo

          Yes I actually DO know quite a lot about women reproductive rights and body.

          Statement disproven by following:

          women do not suffer physically and emotionally from abortions.

          Complete and utter bullshit. My oldest sister is a social worker and has counseled hundreds of women that have regretted their decision to abort.

          • Skulander

            Ah yes. Another antichoice lie: women suffer from having an abortion. Perhaps you should show your sister this link: http://www.imnotsorry.net/

            In France there’s IVG: Je vais bien, merci! (“Abortion: I’m doing just fine, thanks!”) http://jevaisbienmerci.net/

            Countless women do not regret their abortion, are not scarred by it, Abortions have been legal for 40 years and have been going on for 4,000 years. If they were harmful guess what? The practice would no longer be chosen by women. Sure, it’s not always an easy choice. But regrets? Perhaps for some. But not for the overwhelming majority.

            Unfortunately, again facts get in the way of your ideology. What DOES harm women actually is abortion restrictions. Worldwide antichoice laws are responsible for 40,000 dying every year. Because you know what? Abortions aren’t going away. The only choice is whether women will die from them or not.

            I also couldn’t help notice that you’re a man (“Mike”). I’m wondering what your personal views haveto do here about a private, personal medical decision regarding a pregnant woman? We can discuss this day and night but you’re not entitled to make decisions for someone else.

            Women are people, you know? Just sayin’

          • John Thomas “Jack” Ward III

            Was it voted on in Congress and signed by President Nixon? Or voted on as a refferendum by the voters? No, it was ADJUDICATED into Law by the SCOTUS. Proves not just that Liberal Pro-Choicers are the “Party of Death,” but they apparently don’t want the rest of us, The U.S. (#PaulHarvey) to have a voice about their “agenda.” #TheyFeelPain #ALLLIFEISPRECIOUS #NOBRAINERALERT #RightWard Jawamax 8<{D}

          • Skulander

            Party of death?

            I know, right? Because forcing women into illegal, unsafe abortions is SOOO prolife.

            And hey! Look!!! Another man who thinks he can control women’s bodies.

            Yes, all life is precious. Unless you’re a pregnant woman of course. Remember Savita? Beatriz, who almost died because of antichoice laws? NEVER AGAIN.

          • mike_in_kosovo

            Remember Karnamaya Mongar, who DID die at the hands of Kermit Gosnell, as well as hundreds of late-term babies?

            NEVER AGAIN.

          • Skulander

            Indeed, absolutely. NEVER AGAIN Karnamaya Mongar.

            Which is why we must keep abortions safe, accessible and legal so women can access them in a timely manner.

            Gosnell is the direct result of antichoice laws restricting access to this essential health service. What he did was illegal but ban abortions and there’ll be more like him. Guaranteed.

          • mike_in_kosovo

            Which is why we must keep abortions safe, accessible and legal so women can access them in a timely manner.

            Like in Gosnell’s clinic?

            Gosnell is the direct result of antichoice laws restricting access to this essential health service.

            Are you on cheap drugs? Just *what* laws were restricting access to Gosnell?

            What he did was illegal but ban abortions and there’ll be more like him. Guaranteed.

            Speaking of lying…must’ve missed where this law is going to make all abortions illegal. Care to clue us in?

          • Skulander

            Again, ban abortions and you’ll get more Gosnells. Gosnell’s clinic was already illegal and the result of laws denying women this fundamental right to control their bodies and make private, personal decisions about their pregnancy.

            Again, as a man, this isn’t your decision to make. The decision belongs to the pregnant woman. Not you. Or me.

          • mike_in_kosovo

            “Again, ban abortions and you’ll get more Gosnells.”

            Nobody’s talking about banning them except you. Planning on coming back to reality, or are you going to continue arguing with your Scarecrow over in Oz?

          • SturJen

            oh she wants to be sure to kill her kids right up until they are born because it’s her RIGHT to be a sperm-receptacle…incapable of even discerning the most simple of equations: Sex = babies.
            There has never been, nor will there ever be more than one 100% safe contraceptive other than NO SEX. but that’s really hard….. I mean,….animals with lower intelligence have figured out sex = babies, but with human females (not all, mind you, some of us have learned) it’s impossible to figure out that a baby is the result of sex.
            And then there are those who cannot figure out whether or not to kill their child FOR FIVE ORE MORE MONTHS, and expect that to be OK.
            It really, really, really, really makes me ashamed to be a human female.

          • SturJen

            Uh, no one banned Gosnell. He spent 17 years slaughtering kids, and Moms without being being inspected ONCE…because you know, that might have shut them down. A plumber was called once for a clogged drain at the clinic. He plunged and a baby’s hand came out of the drain. But that was LEGAL so it’s OK.
            Now there’s another guy twisting the heads of of post-20 week old babies in Houston. Maybe you should go down there and see if you can help. You seem to have the moxie for it.

          • Skulander

            Kids. Yes, babies that were actually BORN. Had nothing to do with abortion, actually.

            I’m just as disgusted with Gosnell as you are. But why are you so against ways to make sure they don’t operate anymore? Ban abortions and you’ll get more like him, guaranteed. Women will never stop seeking abortions, and there’ll always be Gosnells around to provide them, unsafely. Much better to have well-regulated clinics with good access to abortion care in a timely fashion, so these women don’t have to wait that long and end up at Gosnell’s clinics.

            Look at Canada. Canada has no Gosnell. And why? Well, why would he operate there? Clinics are well-regulated but abortion access is actually good, affordable and in a timely manner. Why would women in Canada go to Gosnell where there are safer, better options to get an abortion much earlier?

          • Bathing Suit Area

            “no one banned Gosnell”

            So you’re telling us he’s not in prison?

          • $23251017

            I’m glad a cold hearted witch like you is not my mother.

          • mike_in_kosovo

            Ah yes. Another antichoice lie: women suffer from having an abortion.

            Proven by my sister’s experience, yes.

            Countless women do not regret their abortion, are not scarred by it

            And countless DO regret their decision and are scarred by it.

            Abortions have been legal for 40 years and have been going on for 4,000 years.

            So? You’re coming to point eventually, I take it?

            We can discuss this day and
            night but you’re not entitled to make decisions for someone else.

            Since men can’t make that decision for women, I guess we’ll have to invalidate Roe v. Wade, decided on by …. 9 MEN.

          • Guest

            Brilliant!

          • $23251017

            Brilliant Mike!

          • Bathing Suit Area

            As opposed to the millions who have done so and been fine with it.

          • mike_in_kosovo

            And millions who haven’t.

        • SturJen

          Yeah, tell that to my good friend who tried to commit suicide after aborting her child. Had she succeeded, she would have left 2 daughters without a Mother. But hey…that doesn’t count, right because she didn’t succeed.

          • Skulander

            Oh I see. So your friend attempted to commit suicide so we should ban all abortions? And WE’RE the fascists ones?

            What about the women committing suicide because of LACK of abortion care? How about you trust women and let them make the decision that is best for them? What a novel idea!

            I also suppose you’ll protest tobacco smoking then, since it kills people?

            I assume you’ll also protest cosmetic surgery clinics because sometimes women die from such procedures?

          • Bathing Suit Area

            I know a guy who attempted suicide after his girlfriend dumped him. Shall we ban breakups now?

      • John Thomas “Jack” Ward III

        Or, to use a point from Rush Limbaugh (Himself), “Some Liberal Pro-Choicers treat Pregnancy like it’s a disease…” THAT also makes me sick! EVERY LIFE IS PRECIOUS! I don’t care if they grow up to be a billionaire or a “Dumpster Diver” scouring for stuff to recycle, I reiterate, EVERY LIFE IS PRECIOUS! #RightWard #DefendLife Jawamax 8<{D}

      • Bathing Suit Area

        Having a baby you want is not a punishment. Having one that you don’t want is.

        • Catchance

          You just pinpointed the vast difference between liberals and conservatives. For us, if we have an unwanted pregnancy and don’t want or cannot raise the baby, we recognize that it’s not the baby’s fault; so why should he or she be punished by death? There are so many childless couples out there who would be thrilled to adopt that baby… what a gift! The real reason women decide on abortion over adoption is because they believe that they would be perceived as being a ‘bad mother’ to ‘give away’ her child, but by aborting no one else will know.

          • Bathing Suit Area

            It’s not about punishing a baby, it’s about not forcing someone into giving birth when they don’t want to. Yes, even if they have committed the evil, evil act of having, and maybe even enjoying, sex.

          • Catchance

            Nice straw man, there. #evil sex

            For heaven’s sake. There’s plenty of cheap birth control available if you don’t want to get pregnant; and if you get pregnant anyway and don’t want a baby there are hundreds of thousands of couples who stand in line to adopt. If you think having to carry a baby for 9 months (or an extra 4 months over the time you have already spent being pregnant) is ‘punishment’ you really do have a disconnect from reality. ‘Forcing’ someone to give birth is a far smaller ‘punishment’ than killing a baby who has no say in the matter.

            (And please don’t give the ‘rape’ canard… that was a legal reason for abortion prior to Roe v Wade.)

        • Catchance

          You just pinpointed the vast difference between liberals and conservatives. For us, if we have an unwanted pregnancy and don’t want or cannot raise the baby, we recognize that it’s not the baby’s fault; so why should he or she be punished by death? There are so many childless couples out there who would be thrilled to adopt that baby… what a gift! The real reason women decide on abortion over adoption is because they believe that they would be perceived as being a ‘bad mother’ to ‘give away’ her child, but by aborting no one else will know.

    • https://twitter.com/BlissTabitha Tabitha Bliss

      Your an idiot they put in the ‘provisions’. But let me let you in on a not so little secret…
      At that stage of the pregnancy, statistically speaking, the mother’s life is far more likely to be endangered as a result of the abortion than it would be by having the child. Abortions cause many more deaths than just that of the unborn.
      I have a friend that just had a child at 26 weeks along & can not look at that child without thinking of how precious & beautiful a thing he is which immediately makes me think of how vile & disgusting a thing ‘pro-choicers’ are.

      • Skulander

        Yes, they are more dangerous at that stage, it’s true. But at this later stage it’s not really a choice often, isn’t it? Often the fetus is not viable or the life of the mother is endangered. I’ll remind you that 90% of abortions occur during the 1st trimester: sorry honey but at this stage it isn’t your choice.

        Why does the life of the mother is of so little concerns to you? Do they have the right to life, too?

        Abortions are actually safer than giving birth. Both of which are, of course, extremely safe. You know, the only disgusting people are antichoicers, who control women’s lives and put their health at risk.

        BTW, I’ll remind you that the point of this article here was pain. Fetuses can’t feel any before at least 24 weeks. Why do antichoicers keep lying?

        • TexSizzle

          Why do anti-lifers keep lying? Your bovinus manurus claim has been disproven.

          • Skulander

            Lying?

            You’re the ones lying here about fetal pain. Not us.

          • Skulander

            And speaking of “anti-life”…

            I suppose letting Savita die was “prolife”? And what abut Beatriz, who nearly suffered the same fate?

            Why are antichoicers okay with letting women die?

      • Sally

        So why is a woman in the US 14 times more likely to die if she gives birth than if she has an abortion?

        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22270271

        • mike_in_kosovo

          Quite a lot has to do with teen pregnancy.

          Next stupid question?

          • Bathing Suit Area

            I guess that makes it ok then, who cares about teenagers, they’re not fetuses.

          • mike_in_kosovo

            *ANOTHER* strawman? #LibLogicFail

        • Noah

          Is that factoring in Kermit Gosnell or are these Pre-Gosnell numbers??

        • SturJen

          As has been pointed out before, one of these options causes there to be 1 death within the pair- mother and child -100% of the time. So in that case, a child is 100% more likely to die in an abortion than during birth.

    • Noah

      killed that strawman argument. killed it, I tells ya!!
      Thank you for defending pro-choicers against the argument that NOBODY HAS EVER MADE, EVER!!

      • Bathing Suit Area

        Have you ever read anti abortion comments? It’s what most I’d them around here say.

        • Noah

          really?! no exceptions for the life of the mother?!?

          seriously, nobody has ever made that argument ever!!

  • Citizen Loring

    We’ll Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton and the whole panel on MSNBC make a good care for abortion.

  • stevearizona

    Antichrist Jr. Obama has never encountered an abortion he didn’t like. He and his like minded cohorts across the social spectrum are evil. His concept of good is evilly warped.

  • teamfrazzled

    Anyone who thinks babies feel no pain before 24 weeks needs to visit a neonatal intensive care unit for extremely premature babies. My son was born at 24 weeks and was exquisitely sensitive to pain and the doctors and nurses who work in them know it for a fact. A needle stick typically caused blood,pressure to drop and the heart to race -those on ventilators wee unable to cry but still the trauma was so obvious the staff did all they could to avoid taking blood unless absolutely necessary. My child at 24 weeks was not the most premature and they all responded negatively to painful stimuli. Biology wins out here and human development is a known fact, not “questionable”. The nerve endings have been fully formed for some time by 24 weeks but lie right at the surface because the fat layer is not developed until the last month. Babies have all systems and organs, including the neurological system, by 12 weeks and after that the child is merely growing and NOT developing any new systems. Normally the child is well protected from painful stimuli inside its mother but not for the extremely premature. Or those having their limbs ripped from the bodies. I’ve never yet met the parents of an extremely premature chid who ever supported abortion even if they once did. After that it’s Impossible to deny their shared humanity or the fact they really are the only rightful owner of their life -with the right to keep it.

  • Sally

    WOMEN feel pain. Forced childbirth is wrong.

    • bicentennialguy

      Awww, poor thing. It doesn’t feel as good coming out as it did going in, huh? Perhaps the women who let men ejaculate inside them should think about that. Wouldn’t the ultimate female empowerment actually be controlling who and what goes into their bodies rather than the murder of a child?

      • Bathing Suit Area

        Grownups have sex, sometimes. Try not to freak out about it too much.

        • Grandma HeadInjury

          Yep, for nearly 30 years now. Funny thing: no pregnancies. Golly whiz, Beav, how does that happen?

          Murdering a child to cover up for your bad decision making and your cowardice to face up to that bad decision is indeed something to freak out about.

      • Bathing Suit Area

        Grownups have sex, sometimes. Try not to freak out about it too much.

    • Noah

      because we all know that a permanent solution (abortion) for temporary pain (the agony of childbirth) is better, right?!

    • NCRelite

      so a baby should receive the death penalty because “WOMEN feel pain.”?

      • Grandma HeadInjury

        So is it okay to perform post-birth abortions on all the democrats that make me feel pain every time I look at what’s left of my paycheck?

  • Corporal Clinger

    I don’t give a crap whether they can feel pain or not, it’s still taking the life of a little one. These disgusting bastards like Nadler and Obama sicken me.

  • in_awe

    Historical fact: Obama in the IL legislature sponsored the bill to grant legal immunity to abortion doctors who kill or don’t render medical aid to even viable babies that survive an abortion. That summarizes his feelings about women being able to freely deal without consequence their “punishment” of carrying a baby.

    • Noah

      another awesome fact: In 1999 the Illinois State Senate voted to allow the records of a rape victims case sealed from public view. 99 Illinois Senators voted in favor. One Illinois Senator, with schoolchildren in attendance from his voting district, voted Present (i’m probably giving away his identity with that juicy nugget) instead. Guess who this Senator was and his political party.

      Hint: He was absolutely not born in Kenya, His wife’s name rhymes with “Ichelle” and he once had a neighbor whose name rhymes with “Jill Bayres”.
      Good Luck!!

  • MissJames

    my youngest son (adopted) was born at 25 weeks. He’s 11 years old ,now. We’re talking about a difference of 14-21 days .

  • capisce

    My question for Rep. Slaughter:

    @louiseslaughter Did u drink or smoke while pregnant? Prob. not – u knew that was harmful to babies. How can #abortion not be?#theyfeelpain

  • mapache

    Really, how much can it hurt having your limbs torn from your body?

  • mapache

    If “They” feel pain isn’t that saying there is actually a little person in there? Abortion is a sin against God and all that is innocent.

  • W Randall

    It literally makes me sick to my stomach when I think about this Administration and those people who oppose protecting unborn children. How do their sick and twisted minds work? How does someone even consider this a “woman’s health” issue!. They are sick human beings if they even really qualify as human.

    • Bathing Suit Area

      > “How does someone even consider this a “woman’s health” issue!. ”

      Yeah, it’s not like pregnancy or childbirth involve women at all, so why should they get any say in it?

      • W Randall

        What a lame liberal BS response, it’s getting more and more weak, but still so very predictable. The vast majority of abortions are not related to “health” issues but are for convenience, however 45% are repeat customers, so for most their choice was before they get knocked up. Liberal minded people don’t want to have any liability for their mindless actions, so your opinion means absolutely nothing to me. If you’re pro convenience abortion then you’re a sub-human POS as far as I’m concerned.

      • Grandma HeadInjury

        They didn’t seem to worry about having a say when they were accepting ejaculate from the dude of the day…

        • Bathing Suit Area

          Oh, I forgot, women lose all right to an opinion when they are defiled by touching the unholy penis.

          • Grandma HeadInjury

            So…why were they so dim when it really counted?

            Oh, and you can stop going on about your penis fetish, no one is impressed….

            But! I am glad to hear that you think my having an opinion absolves me of committing murder in the most horrible and painful of ways. Awesome! Some of the assholes I work with are in for a big surprise today!

  • Bathing Suit Area

    You know who can feel pain? Women forced into giving birth against their will.

    Oh, sorry, I forgot, they deserve pain because they had sex.

    • $29561723

      IF it takes them 5 months to figure it out, they deserve a “garden variety slap” to the face. As do you.

      • Bathing Suit Area

        Have fun slapping the imaginary women who delay their abortions for fun.

    • $29561723

      IF it takes them 5 months to figure it out, they deserve a “garden variety slap” to the face. As do you.

  • Ryan Schneider.

    We should think about the various kinds of pain. Being torn limb from limb, crushed, or Prehaps the worst, saline. Why is that worst? Well, I have heard stories of what it is like to be near death from thirst. When humans get a salt overdose, they suffer an immediate agony of thirst, of needing to drink fresh water to dilute the salt, which quickly thickens the blood and endrochine systems, crystals solidifing as they saturate, grinding against blood vessel walls. In some cases the kidneys rupture. Its like slowly drowning in the dead sea or Great salt lake. I think saline abortion is the cruelest of all, as it takes hours to die, where dismembered babies usually bleed to death quickly.

  • vaderof3

    A man is being trialed for killing a baby raccoon in Toronto, and that caused a big roar. So raccoon can feel pain but not babies? Are raccoons more worthy to be saved than our lives?

    • Bathing Suit Area

      Was the raccoon inside him?

  • Bathing Suit Area

    Yeah, women waiting until late in the pregnancy to change their mind and get an abortion does sound unlikely. I guess that’s why late term abortions are almost always done because of medical issues, or because of circumstances blocking the women’s ability to get it done earlier.