Something evil this way came: 40 years of Roe; Cardinal Dolan leads mass before prayer vigil


Something evil this way came: Today is the 40th anniversary of Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court decision that resulted in robed judges legalizing the killing of innocent unborn children. The more than fifty million lives lost since that decision have no graves to mark their passing. They cannot speak for themselves, as their lives were snuffed out before they could even take their very first breaths. They died lacking even the simple dignity of a human touch. No one was able to hold their tiny, innocent hands, coursing with life’s blood, as that life left their tiny bodies in the womb that was meant to be a safe haven.

They have been forever silenced. We must speak for them. And this morning, Cardinal Dolan did. National Review’s Kathryn Jean Lopez reports from the service.

After the mass, a prayer procession begins on the streets of New York City.

Twitter users are also marking Roe’s anniversary.


Media outlets spin. How low must one go to spin such a horrifying thing?

But that doesn’t push a false narrative or an agenda. An agenda that seeks to devalue life. Because, empowerment. Or something.

Indeed. Also weeping today are women who have had abortions. The regret, guilt and pain that they feel over that decision will last their lifetimes.

You are in our prayers. This is For the Women ™?

Women’s rights are not predicated on a legal ability to kill their own children. Those who claim that, including alleged feminists, do not empower women. In fact, they degrade and demean women by devaluing motherhood, and life itself. Our hands are stained with the blood of the 50 million lives lost.

Matt Drudge recently reminded us of a normal day. A normal day, when 3,500 innocent lives are snuffed out at, and for, someone else’s convenience. Those voices … more than 50 million voices so far … are forever silenced. The screams of those innocent babies are unheard.

Ours cannot be.


  • salvagesalvage

    That would be the same Dolan who helped cover up the sexual abuse of children? He went on later to pay off molesters. Just like Jesus would have!

    It’s hysterical the way the Catholic Church is more concerned with fetuses than actual born children.

    • BeyondPolls

      When do you think life begins?

      • Danny Wheeler

        You said it, friend! Life begins at conception. It is the first stitch in the weaving together of God’s handiwork!

        • BeyondPolls

          :) We must communicate this to America!

          • Joe W.

            Americans already know this. Liberals do not.

          • BeyondPolls

            Like I said above, we really need to stop worrying about liberals all the time, as wrong as they are about everything.

          • Joe W.

            Oh, I am not worried about liberals, my friend….I simply despise them.

          • BeyondPolls

            But we need to stop attacking them and hide our dislike for them in favor of more positive arguments for conservatism. I know that I need to work on this as well.

          • Ronald


          • BeyondPolls

            Thanks. :)

      • Joe W.

        For liberals, life begins when they get their first welfare payment.

        • BeyondPolls

          Did you read Erik Erikson’s article a few days ago? The one called ‘The Loyal Opposition’. I just want to know what you think about it.

          • Joe W.

            Actually, I did not. I quit following Mr. Erickson and Red State after his immature melt down and assault of Governor Sarah Palin when she was considering her candidacy for the White House. What did he have to say?? I don’t wish to contribute page visits to his site.

          • BeyondPolls

            I’ve never heard of that meltdown, but he basically said that we as conservatives need to stop whining about everything that liberals do wrong and actually start presenting positive arguments in favor of conservatism. He said in another article that the GOP needs to rally around the institution of the family and to use this in every argument.

          • Joe W.

            The GOP is done, my friend. As a lifelong Republican, I have cast my final vote for the party. From this point forward, I will vote for the true conservative on the ballot. If none is on the ticket, I’ll not vote. I’m at the point where I have zero confidence in either of the two parties. That is why I favor my State of Texas seceding from the Union. I believe that the United States is a failed nation, as evidenced by the re-election of Barack Obama, and the rejection of conservatism in all levels of government. As a society, we have turned our backs on God, morality, self reliance, integrity and traditional American Values. With fully half of the population on the government handout rolls, there is no hope for America to recapture her exceptionalism. I find it all quite sad and depressing. I wish I were wrong, but I know that I am correct. I applaud those of you who continue to believe you can fix things, but I am done. I wish you well, my friend…..

          • BeyondPolls

            I totally agree with you that we have turned our backs on God. But I don’t think now is the time for secession. I think we need to stand up, take moral stands, and dare the enemy to stop us. Look at what Hobby Lobby is doing.
            I think one of the main things we can do is stand up for the unborn. We can promote adoption. We can talk to the African-American community (most African-American church members stayed home in 2012) about the racist roots of abortion.
            The Republican Party may be lost, but conservatism is never lost. Texas is going to start passing abortion restrictions. I think you are in a position to stand up and push for a Texas Personhood Amendment.

      • salvagesalvage

        When you move out of your parents home and can stay up all night and have cake for breakfast.

        Oh, you mean biologically? When the sperm and egg meet and the cells start splitting most likely.

        • BeyondPolls

          Glad to hear it. So since you understand that life does begin at conception, you must be pro-life and in favor of unborn equality.

          • salvagesalvage

            Sure, I would never have an abortion and should I knock a woman up (unlikely, true) I would make any offer for her to carry the child to term BUT if she decided that she wanted to have an abortion that would be that as it’s her body.

            See that’s the bit “pro-life” types choose not to understand. It’s no one business other than the woman’s. it’s her body, very single atom, she decides what happens, not me, not you, not a god, not a government. Her. The End.

            No, don’t tell me about how the fetus has unique DNA or a heartbeat or tiny little hands, as long as it is inside the mother it lives and dies at her favor.

            Clinton said it best, abortion must be legal, safe and rare. If your pro-life types really cared about ending abortion you’d be all in favor of birth control and sex-ed but I have found that really they’re more anti-women having sex and “getting away with it”.

          • wwbdinct

            What a callous, hard hearted individual you are. Let me just dissect your last paragraph. Abortion’s may be legal, they may be somewhat safe (but that’s up to debate as you won’t see many studies done as to what it does to a women’s reproductive system and general health overall after the procedure) but they are definitely not rare! It’s the chosen method of birth control for entirely too many women. This is a true fact whether or not you choose to believe it. I don’t know of anyone who is not in favor of birth control, which is a lie that people like you continue to perpetuate. What we aren’t in favor of is having to pay for someone else’s BC – a fact that people like you just cannot seem to grasp because you lump that in with people being opposed to BC. Finally, sex-ed? Really? There is more sex-ed in the public schools now than there is history, math and English. I have kids who have been through this year after year since 6th grade! The kids today know what to do and they still don’t do it. And now you want more sex-ed? What a joke…. You’re anti-women label is stale and tired now. When you have no good argument, result to hurling insults. It doesn’t work, especially with something as serious as abortion. It’s not getting a tooth pulled out!

          • salvagesalvage

            See you still don’t get it, it doesn’t matter why a woman gets an abortion be it because she was gang raped, drunk when she banged the guy or just doesn’t want to get fat. Her motivation is immaterial, it’s her body and she can do what she pleases with it.

            Birth control is a medical issue so if someone has medical insurance I should cover birth control, it’s weird that wingnuts seem to think that this is a big deal.

            And no, there is not more sex-ed than other subjects, see its that sort of hyperbolic nonsense that makes it clear that you can’t be reasonable on any subject concerning sex.

            It really is odd this fear and loathing your kind has for sex.

            As for you not knowing anyone against birth control, um, Cardinal Dolan? Ring any bells?

          • wwbdinct

            Who said anything about fear and loathing for sex? Your words, not mine. You don’t have kids therefore you have no idea what is being in taught in schools. So your opinion is coming for an ignorant and misinformed position. Just because the Catholic Church doesn’t believe in contraception doesn’t mean every single women who is a catholic follows that belief. You made the statement that we are not in favor of birth control and I’m telling you I don’t know anyone who is not in favor of that. You made a blanket statement about all Conservatives which is just not true. But that’s what your kind always does. Blanket assumptions and outright lies. You’re not worth arguing with anymore anyway as evidenced below. Happy trolling.

          • salvagesalvage

            Ah that’s what I love about theism, the way you get to pick and choose. You’re quite right, many Catholic women do use birth control but their Pope says that their god is going to be very cross about it.

            Hey did you know the Vatican. Hates condoms so much they lied about them in Africa? Said they wouldn’t stop the spread of AIDS? I guess that’s what Jesus would do.

            And while I don’t know what is being taught in schools I do know that sex ed is not being taught more than other subjects.

          • wwbdinct

            Just so you know, because you love to make blanket assumptions, I’m not a religious person at all. I don’t know what the Vatican did, does or doesn’t do but religion is not the basis of my opposition to abortion.
            If you don’t know what is being taught in schools, then how do you know that sex ed is not being taught more than other subjects? You don’t know – so you should STFU about what you don’t know because truthfully, there’s a whole lot that you don’t know. Now, I’m finished. But you won’t be because you’re a stomp your foot, throw a hissy fit, last word lefty. Again, happy trolling!

          • salvagesalvage

            Oh so you just think women are second class citizens? The minute they get pregnant they have no say over their own bodies?

            The Vatican covered up the rape and abuse of children for decades, Dolan had a hand in it, even paid the rapist money to go away while at the same time trying to stop the victims from collecting money.

            I know that sex-ed is not taught more than other subjects because I am not an idiot who believes crazy stupid things.

          • $36544368

            Apparently you are, because your idea of abortion and the whole ridiculous backing you seem to have for it is crazy and stupid. As I am fond of saying, ‘go home and take your meds’.

          • salvagesalvage

            Ha! Ha! Yes! I am crazy and stupid for thinking that women have the right to be compete masters of their own bodies!

          • $36544368

            LOL…that’s what you love about theism – the way you get to pick and choose? Hello? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! How about your own agenda…(see my previous post regarding the murder of a pregnant woman). Hypocrite!!! OMG! You cannot even see that!

          • salvagesalvage

            No silly person, there is no pick and choose, women have compete say over their own bodies I am quite consistent on that point.

          • lainer51

            wow, you really have a “thing” for Dolan

          • BeyondPolls

            No, it’s not only her body. When a woman gets pregnant, there are two bodies.
            You obviously know the scientific truths about DNA. But then you discard them for baseless emotional arguments. I can make grounded emotional arguments, however: I don’t understand how anyone could discriminate against unborn children just because they look different from them. Unborn children deserve equal protection under the 14th Amendment.
            And now the DNC platform has discarded the moniker ‘safe, legal, and rare’ in favor of ‘safe and legal’. Actually, they should also drop ‘safe’ because these abortion procedures are anything but safe for women’s health.
            Birth control is an entirely different argument. It really depends on what type of birth control you are talking about. It also depends on what type of sex education you are talking about.
            But really and truly, adoption is the true action that is a woman’s choice. Pro-abortionists are anti-adoption because they only want women to abort their children.

          • salvagesalvage

            Nope, if its in her it’s her body, from egg to fetus all hers and she has the final say.

            “Unborn children” are in fact fetuses and they have no legal right. If you live inside a womb you are not a person.

            Abortions are generally safe, there is no greater risk of cancer or depression despite what Fox News might tell you. In fact abortions can save a woman’s life.

            But again, none of that matters because its the woman’s choice, always.

            I am talking about the kind of birth control that prevents women from being pregnant. If pro-life groups were really pro-life they would insist that birth control be freely available.

            I am talking about the sex-ed that teaches everything about sex including birth control.

            Who are these anti-adoption people of which you speak? I have never heard of such a thing but I do know that if a woman doesn’t want to be pregnant she should not be pregnant. It being her body and all.

          • BeyondPolls

            The only way your arguments hold any water is if you believe that unborn children are part of the mother’s body. Is this the view you hold?
            I’m not talking about cancer or Fox News. I’m talking about women bleeding to death and hemorrhaging. There is no case in which an abortion can save a mother’s life because there is no such thing as a ‘medically-necessary abortion’. That’s junk science.
            The morning after pill? I am definitely against that. Not only is it an abortion pill, but it is also detrimental to women’s health.
            I’m against all sex-ed that does not teach abstinence only.
            Anti-adoption people are people like Cecile Richards, who love abortions and despise adoptions.

          • salvagesalvage

            I hold that view and by an amazing coincidence so does modern medical science!

            Every once in awhile a wingnut says something so amazingly stupid I can’t help but think I am being trolled.

            > There is no case in which an abortion can save a mother’s life because there is no such thing as a ‘medically-necessary abortion’.

            Yes! That would be an excellent example!

            So what do you think happens? The doctors lie to the mother and abort the fetus cuz they love the way the baby’s face looks all shocked when they kill it just as it comes out of the birth canal?

            >That’s junk science.

            Like evolution!

            >The morning after pill? I am definitely against that.

            That’s nice, you shouldn’t take it then, of course you have no right to tell anyone else they can’t.

            And no, it’s not “detrimental to woman’s health” that’s one of those things pro-lifer decide is true (like the pill causes cancer!) because they think lying is okay if you’re lying for a good reason.

            Yeah, telling teenagers not to have sex and nothing else about sex leads to more pregnant teenagers, see Texas for an excellent example of it.

            See, you’re not “pro-life” you’re anti-sex, tell me true, an unmarried woman who has sex is a slut right?

          • $36544368

            You’re not being trolled…you ARE a troll.

          • BeyondPolls

            How about instead of explaining my claims away as silliness, you defend your position. Tell me what is a ‘medically necessary abortion’.
            Abortion ‘doctors’ and workers lie to the mother because they are greedy for money. 60% of the pro-abortion argument is really about money, you know.
            Depends on what type of evolution you are talking about.
            If a drug is known to harm and to kill women, I have a duty to warn people about it and protect people from it.
            I am not sure about the link between abortion and cancer, but that’s not what I said. I said women bleed to death and hemorrhage to the point of death as a result of abortion procedures. Can you honestly believe that sticking scissors andor suction instruments up a woman’s birth canal is safe for women’s health? Seriously? So like I said before, abortion is about money, not women’s health.
            This is the typical strawman argument about sex education. If abstinence only education really only does teach kids about abstinence and nothing about sex, then they are not being effective. What abstinence only education should also teach is the consequences of sex outside of marriage, and these consequences should include psychological and spiritual consequences rather than just physical consequences.
            I refuse to use dirty words David Letterman uses to describe conservative women, but sex outside of marriage is a sin for BOTH the man and the woman (with the exception of rape, which is only the man’s fault and not the woman’s fault nor the baby’s fault). Abortion is at least 50% a man’s issue, you know.

          • salvagesalvage

            Ha! Ha! Yes doctors lie to women to get them to have abortions they don’t need for that sweet sweet money! There is no other way for doctors to make money! They have to deliver live babies for free!

            There is only one kind of evolution in the literal biological sense.

            Really? Your a doctor are you?

            Ha! Ha! Yes! Women always nearly die from abortion!

            So sex before marriage is bad? Why? What psychological effect is there? As for spiritual that’s made up stuff so no effect there.

            Why is sex a sin before marriage?

            And unless men have 50% of the fetus inside of them no, it’s not.

          • BeyondPolls

            I will answer your questions after you show me a ‘medically necessary abortion’.

          • salvagesalvage

            It’s funny, just when I think wingnuts can’t get more wingnutty they go ahead and do just that.

            Giving birth is a dangerous business, not as much as it used to be thanks to modern medical science correcting your god’s sloppy (mysoginistic?) “design” but still things can go wrong. Now I went to find a link to show you these cases but during the search found that this “no such thing as a medical necessary abortion” thing is a pro-life declaration that leads silly people to say silly things.

            Like Atkins “body shuts down during rape” thing.

            So it doesn’t matter what I show you, it doesn’t fit with what you like to believe so you’ll just ignore it. Instead I will point out that no, doctors do not make any more money from abortion than they do delivering babies so no, there is no motive for them to be horrific monsters.

            See what makes you a wingnut is your absolute refusal to see any other facet of the problem. Other than the one that makes you feel righteous. You need everything to be simple black and white, no thinking or empathy required.

            As for my other questions you won’t answer them for the same reasons; you’d have to think and that’s just not in your code.

          • BeyondPolls

            If you believe that giving birth is more dangerous than sticking foreign tools into a woman’s body for the purpose of removing a baby from her body, then you subscribe to junk science.
            While we are on the topic of rape, have you ever heard of the SCOTUS case Kennedy vs Louisiana?
            While we are on the topic of black and white, we can talk about the racist roots of abortion. Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, wanted to reduce the black population. In her own words, “Negroes are the problem of the South.”

          • salvagesalvage

            Ha! Ha! Yes! Junk science, that is science that says stuff you don’t want to be true!

            I have, rape isn’t a death penalty crime, point?

            She sure was a racist, OYG! A racist in turn of the century America?!? Did she own slaves like many of the founding fathers? Did she stand in a school doorway to physically prevent integration?

            That must mean everything else she said / believed was wrong! That’s just plain logical.

            At any rate I’m not sure because a racist lady started the liberation of woman’s health and body means that women are not people who have full rights to their health and body.

          • BeyondPolls

            The point is, that decision was made by the liberal+libertarian wing of the court. Obviously they don’t really care about justice because they sentence the rapists’ children to death rather than the rapist themselves. That is not social justice.
            That depends on what you mean by the term slave. Slavery is still legal today you know. It’s called prison. Human trafficking is what is illegal in America. Except when it comes to abortion.
            That’s just the point. It was never about ‘liberation’. She also wrote that she used that as a mask for her racist agenda. And her intentions do matter today because abortion is the number one killer of African-Americans today.
            But I have an interesting question for you: do you want to reduce crime in America without toughing up prisons?

          • salvagesalvage

            No, it was made by a sensible court who looked at all the facts and didn’t let revulsion and base instinct cloud their Judgement. The death penalty is always stupid in any case.

            And a baby is not a fetus anymore than a fetus is a sperm and egg.

            Yeah, I know wingnuts have trouble figuring out that different things are different but slavery is not abortion.

            Ah yes the abortion hurts black people! It’s so funny the way you don’t understand how racist that is. But again, understanding stuff, not your thing.

            What does toughening prisons mean?

          • BeyondPolls

            Oh. My. Word. I can’t believe what you just said. You want rapists to remain alive while their children are killed and their victims get no sense of justice.
            Actually, you believe that the death penalty is always stupid unless it’s an unborn child.
            Just like segregationists believed that African-Americans were less than human, pro-abortionists believe that unborn children are less than human.
            Yes, it is racist that abortion is the number one killer of African-Americans. Are you defending this fact?
            By toughening prisons, I mean taking away privileges and generally making them undesirable. So do you want to end crime without these measures?

          • salvagesalvage

            Yes! I am pro-rapist! Oh wingnut why must you wingnut so?

            I want everyone to remain alive, see that’s what pro-life actually means.

            A fetus or unborn child is not a child so if a woman is raped she and she alone decides if it lives or dies. That’s what pro-choice means.

            But yes unborn children are quite literally less than human, that’s why we don’t call them human.

            Abortion doesn’t kill anyone, it kill fetuses. What is racist is this idea that Black people are somehow being manipulated into abortions, as if somehow the factors that go into making the choice doesn’t apply to Whites.

            And yes! Prisons are so desirable!

          • BeyondPolls

            Yes, because you want rapists to live rather than die. What you said is as bad as what Todd Akin said.
            You just said that life begins at conception. So you like rapists’ children to die rather than the rapist themselves. How can the victim of rape even live with this? It’s terrible.
            Unborn children are as ‘less than human’ as African-Americans were to segregationists. It’s the same philosophy.
            African-Americans are greatly deceived by white people on the issue of abortion. It all goes back to Margaret Sanger. Her legacy lives on today.
            Prisoners get free food, a place to sleep, television, internet, exercise, and most of all, structure. That’s what criminals really want: structure. So, since prisons are overcrowding, do you want to reduce crime without making prisons worse than they are to live in?

          • salvagesalvage

            It’s so cute the way pro-lifers are for the death penalty and how they don’t trust the government to do anything right but still want to give them power over life and death.

            The death penalty is stupid for any crime.

            Again, what I want for any fetus that is not mine is immaterial.

            Again you don’t want the government to tell you what to do with your precious guns but are okay with the government telling women what they can do with their own bodies.

            Unborn children are not human, you can tell by the way they live inside wombs, humans don’t do that. There are other marked differences of course.

            And yes! Blacks is so dumb they need to be told they’re being tricked into abortion! See your racism shinning!

            Ha! Ha! Yes! Prison is a vacation!

          • BeyondPolls

            I trust the government to enforce higher moral law, which includes capital punishment in certain situations. Capital punishment is sometimes necessary to prevent horrific crimes from occurring over and over again, such as pedophilia and rape.
            We are not called to be selfish.
            Again, you are subscribing to the junk science of believing that unborn children are part of the mothers’ bodies. Have you ever asked a pregnant woman how she uses her second brain?
            Again, you are discriminating against other human beings just because they look different from you or act different from you.
            Did I say that African-Americans do not have responsibility? No. Did I say that liberals have some responsibility? Yes.
            Let me re-frame my argument. Are you concerned with prison overcrowding?

          • salvagesalvage

            And what do you say to so someone who was innocent and put to death?

            Ha! Ha! Junk science! The wingnut answer to a reality that it does not like.

          • BeyondPolls

            The Constitution gives the right of a fair trial, so it’s hard to execute someone who is innocent in our justice system.
            You can scoff all you like, but I have tried to point out the errors in your worldview.

          • salvagesalvage

            uh huh:


            What I love about wingnuts is the way St Ronnie said “I’m from the government and I’m here to help” is like the worst thing ever! But when it’s “I’m from the government and I’m going to kill someone” suddenly the system works!

          • BeyondPolls

            We are off on a rabbit trail, but you’ll notice that those people were largely not convicted in the proper manner in the first place. Corruption in the courts is an entirely different issue.
            I am going to assume that you are concerned with prison overcrowding, based on your actions. I have a solution that fits with your worldview.

          • salvagesalvage

            Ah, so when there is a death penalty case it’s always proper? Doubtful.

            But it doesn’t matter, killing an innocent person is only one of the many reasons why the death penalty is stupid.

          • BeyondPolls

            By proper manner, I mean the manner described in the Bible.
            So, since you are concerned with prison overcrowding, you should research what the majority of our prison population is. Do you know what it is?

          • salvagesalvage

            Um, the Bible is a big book of myths and very silly things, there’s a reason why the Founding Fathers built a firewall between church and state so no.

            Where did I say I was concerned about anything to do with prisons? You keep brining that up, clearly you have some wingnut thing you’d like to drop so please, tell me your theories on prison reform.

          • BeyondPolls

            Let’s talk about those ‘myths and silly things’. Show me some examples.
            The Framers built a wall to keep the government out of the church, not the other way around. Besides, the Constitution says nothing about this wall except that the federal government has no power to prohibit the free exercise of religion.
            Let’s shift gears. Do you think aborting a baby based on who he or she could become in the future is a legitimate excuse?

          • salvagesalvage

            World wasn’t made in six days nor where the animals made as we see them now.

            And that’s just one of the many glaring errors on the first few pages, it gets worse.

            And no, church and state completely and totally separate, this has been confirmed time and time again you are spouting pure wingnut there.

            Once again, the motive for an abortion is immaterial; be it because the woman was raped, her doctor says it might be risky, she isn’t in a place in her life to be a good parent, her contraception failed, she doesn’t want to have children, she doesn’t want to get fat, she’s always wanted to see what an abortion is like or even if she thinks she’s going to birth the next Hitler / Einstein.

            Whatever her reasons they do not matter to anyone anywhere at anytime. It is her choice 100% because it is her body and that is that. There is no sophist rhetorical trick to get around that reality.

            You don’t like abortion, great, don’t have one and that is the only opinion you are allowed to have on abortion; your own.

          • BeyondPolls

            1. Present your alternate theory of the universe’s creation.
            2. Micro evolution (changes within kinds) is a scientific fact.
            3. The Framers believed that higher moral law should influence the government. At the very least, you should agree that the HHS contraception mandate is unconstitutional.
            4. Abortion because of rape punishes the baby for the crime of the father.
            5. All abortions are riskier than any pregnancy.
            6. The remaining five options are because of convenience, so you are proving the statistics correct which show that people believe abortion is primarily used as a convenience, even though the procedure is extremely dangerous.
            6. So, you do believe that aborting a child because of who he or she could become is a legitimate excuse. Therefore, you should support a mandate which requires at least most of black males to be aborted, since black males make up over 60% of our prison populations. Problem solved, right? I mean, man always has a better idea than God after all. [/sarc]

          • salvagesalvage

            1 science already has, there are many books, websites, lectures, schools you can pursue but you won’t cuz you need your Jesus like a junky needs his smack

            2 evolution is evolution there is no micro nor macro

            3 they did not hence no mention of your god anywhere in the Constitution

            4 if you want to think that doesn’t change anything.

            5 nonsense.

            6 I can’t explain any simpler so for the last time, motivation is immaterial.

            7 damn, you are stupid.

          • BeyondPolls

            1. Name one alternate explanation for the origin of the universe.
            2. Micro evolution is the only scientific type. This is the type Darwin accidentally discovered.
            3. That’s a weak argument. Have you ever read their writings?
            4. It’s not what I believe. It’s the absolute truth.
            6. In other words, you agree with my proposal. I thought so.

          • salvagesalvage

            1 The Great Green Arklziezure
            2 you don’t know what you are talking about
            3 no it’s not and yes I have.
            4 nope
            5 yes that website is also nonsense
            6 are you dyslexic?

          • BeyondPolls

            1. What book wrote about this beginning of the universe?
            2. How do you explain evolution?
            3. Which writings did you read?
            4. What is absolute truth?
            5. Did you watch the video?
            6. Depends. The APA is constantly changing the definition and creating all kinds of sub-disorders.

          • salvagesalvage

            1. I don’t know any books that write but Stephen Hawkins’ latest rounds up the current theories. Unfortunately it wasn’t written by a tribe of primitive desert savages and doesn’t feature a supreme being that shares your political and cultural beliefs so you probably decide not to believe it.

            2. I don’t but again countless books, lectures, museum exhibits and websites do.

            3. The Golden Treasury of Founding Father’s Words.

            4. Don’t eat greasy food?

            5. No, I only watch porn videos when I am online.

            6. You should get tested, you seem to have some comprehension troubles.

          • BeyondPolls

            1. What are one of his theories?
            2. Name one.
            3. LOL
            4. Who said that?
            5. You should stop. I’ve heard that porn is bad for your brain.
            6. I only comprehended that you think black male babies should be largely aborted in order to reduce the prison population.

          • salvagesalvage

            1. Read the book, I could hardly do it justice
            2. the book is a good place to start. It answers all the creationist bollocks and explains in perfectly clear terms everything about evolution and why it is true.
            4. Lister’s answer to “What’s Boyle’s Fourth Law?”
            5. You heard wrong, porn is neither good or bad for the brain.
            6. Yeah, that’s some sort of wingnut thing? You guys tend to have these cartoons playing in your head that bear only a caricature-like relation to reality.

            Actually if I wanted to reduce the prison population I would decriminalize all drugs, that would solve the problem right there in about five years. I would then, as the government, take over the production of all narcotics and set standards for price, sales policy and co-ordinate with States on taxing it. Part of the money would go to purchasing lots of land, disused industrial areas would be best and set up “needle parks” where stupid people can go shoot up to their heart’s content. There would be onsite counselling and other bleeding hearts to help those who want to quit along with some police to take care of any trouble makers.

            A simple chain of policies would save money, make money and reduce the prison population moving them from an expensive incarceration into a much cheaper one that they pay for, in part, with their own habit.

            And once again because I feel like someday you might understand it, it doesn’t matter why a woman gets an abortion, her motives are meaningless. If she wants to have one, that’s it, she has one, why is simply not a factor.

            It’s called liberty, I think it may have been a concept in the Founding Father’s stuff I read. You ever heard of it? Great idea, basically it means you do your thing, I do mine and as long as it’s not in any conflict it’s not your concern.

            Right now a woman somewhere is having an abortion, it does not affect you in any way shape or form. It affectd literally no one other than the woman. No, the fetus is not a person, no matter how much you want it to be and guess who agrees with me?

            Three Colorado bishops said on Thursday they will review a Catholic Church hospital’s defense of a lawsuit that argues fetuses do not have legal status – apparently contradicting the Church’s teaching on life issues.

            …counsel for the hospital said that under Colorado law, a fetus is not a person…


            Because a fetus is not a person anymore than an egg and a sperm are a fetus. A fetus isn’t nothing, it’s certainly something but it is something that completely and uniquely belongs to the woman. You don’t like that, talk to your god, you think it made the system.

            Your god by the way kills more fetus than Planned Parenthood ever could according to your beliefs.

          • BeyondPolls

            1. Which book?
            2. Well I don’t trust that blog just for the sake of its belief in thoroughly debunked junk science about so-called innate sexual behavior.
            4. So you think that Lister defines absolute truth?
            5. What study did you read?
            6. Decriminalizing all drugs would lead to an extreme mental health pandemic. Adam Lanzas and James Holmes’s would start popping up all over the place.
            Wait, are you saying that you are gunphobic now?
            My solution to reducing the prison population is making prison less desirable. It should be a bare bones motel at best. No TV, no internet, some recreation.
            Therefore, you do believe that at least half of black male babies should be aborted since they have a high risk of becoming a prisoner. That’s the danger of such relativistic beliefs, you know.
            We could extend this ‘liberty’ to legalize pedophilia you know. There is already a movement in place to do this, among some universities.
            The unborn child is greatly affected by the abortion. He or she loses their life. The mother’s health is greatly affected. She now has a high risk of infection and sterility.
            You recently said that you agreed that life began at conception. This is a scientific fact. The ‘fetus’ theory is thoroughly debunked junk science. Even Salon agrees with me.
            I don’t really care what some random Catholic bishops say. It doesn’t change science.

          • salvagesalvage

            1.Grand Design, the video link is about it.

            2. Once again, junk science = science that doesn’t say what you want it to say

            4. No, he’s a fictional character from a fantasy story, hey, just like Jesus!

            5. No study, but I have noticed that pornography has been around for the last 100 years or so (at least in photographic form) and that humanity hasn’t collapsed into a pool of perversion. Human beings, both sexes, have been masturbating for about as long as they’ve had sexual organs and an endless desire to use them. Pornography degrades the imagination but not much more.

            6. You keep saying things that don’t make any sense.

            >My solution to reducing the prison population is making prison less desirable.

            Yes, that would be an example. Prison is not desirable, people do not go to prison so they get free TV and gym access.

            >Therefore, you do believe that at least half of black male babies should be aborted since they have a high risk of becoming a prisoner.

            That would be another one, I have said nothing of the sort. No wonder you are a theist, you have trouble understanding things and are easily confused.

            >We could extend this ‘liberty’ to legalize pedophilia you know.

            No, we could not as that hurts other people. The closest you could come to is if a pedophile drew his own pedophile inspired drawings and used them to masturbate or whatever. That’s about as far as any interpretation of liberty could allow a pedophile to go.

            >There is already a movement in place to do this, among some universities.

            There is not, that is a wingnut thing that wingnuts tell each other.

            >The unborn child is greatly affected by the abortion. He or she loses their life.

            And it doesn’t matter, it has no say, it is the mother’s property as anything else that is part of the mother. Again, liberty.

            >The mother’s health is greatly affected. She now has a high risk of infection and sterility.

            Again that is a wingnut thing that wingnuts tell each other and even if it’s true it is none of your business. People who smoke are at a high risk of cancer so that means they should not be allowed to smoke ever? People who drink booze, even in moderation, are at risk of all kinds of problems and so on.

            Liberty, what people do to themselves is not your concern. What part of that do you not understand / have a problem with?

            >You recently said that you agreed that life began at conception.

            I don’t think that’s an unreasonable statement.

            > This is a scientific fact.

            See how you pick and choose what you decide is fact vs. junk? Notice how nothing that you don’t want to be true is scientific fact? Do you know they all come from the same indifferent methodology?

            >The ‘fetus’ theory is thoroughly debunked junk science.

            Yes, that would be another example.

            > Even Salon agrees with me.

            That’s nice, reality doesn’t.

            >I don’t really care what some random Catholic bishops say. It doesn’t change science.

            Quite right on both counts but the Bishops agree with you that a fetus is a person, (see how you have trouble understanding stuff?) it’s their lawyers and the law that says a fetus is a fetus which is not a person. The problem is that it’s going to cost them a lot of money if they say a fetus is a person so they probably won’t. The Catholic power structure has made it quite clear that they value money over everything.

            See them fighting the child rape lawsuits tooth and nail also their dealings with the Mafia via their bank for further details.

            It’s funny, I don’t remember Jesus telling Peter to open a bank for his Church, what’s up with that anyway?

          • BeyondPolls

            1. Oh, now I remember the book. I’ve heard that it’s been called the worst case for atheism ever.
            2. No, I do not determine scientific truth. God does.
            4. Jesus was not a fictional character. He is and was a real historical figure. Secular scholars agree with me.
            5. No, I have seriously read studies that porn leads to short term memory loss and attention deficit disorders. Not to mention it degrades women.
            6. Yes, people do go to prison for those reasons. Not all of them, but some.
            You said you do not believe in any restrictions for the reasons of abortion. So it’s fair game.
            Abortion hurts other people, not only the unborn child, but also the mother.
            I heard it from a university themselves.
            Sounds like slavery. African-Americans used to be considered property.
            There are pro-abortion medical doctors who say they are concerned with modern abortion procedures and want them to be changed.
            I have no problem with true liberty. That’s why I am fighting for unborn equality.
            You are picking and choosing! It is proven science that life begins at conception. Therefore, abortion is murder, like Salon said. Science is reality.
            I don’t really care what anybody’s random theory is. I care about higher moral law, which is backed up by science. If someone wants to join me in this fight, then so be it. Does this mean I condone their other actions? No.
            Peter did not start the Catholic Church, so your problem is solved.

          • salvagesalvage

            1. I guess that’s what wingnut theists call it; I think in other circles it’s been called something quite opposite of that. Have you read it? Will you?

            2. That would be the god who claimed to have made the cosmos in 6 days, thought the sun was something different from the stars and demanded foreskins? Not sure if it’s much of an authority on such things.

            4. Nope, they do not. There is no physical or recorded evidence of Jesus from his time, the first mention comes some 30 to 60 years after the alleged events. At best Jesus is like Robin Hood or King Arthur, a character loosely based on real-world archetypes. In this case nutters who claim to talk to a god and or their messengers, see Joseph Smith and Mohammad for two more recent examples.

            5. And I’m sure those studies come from wingnut sources so they can be safely dismissed.

            > Not to mention it degrades women.

            I love the inherent misogyny in this statement; you do know that men are in pornos as well right? Yet they are never “degraded” why is that?

            At any rate if the woman wants to be doing it and is getting paid she’s not being degraded… well unless it’s that sort of video but women who are in those kinds of videos tend to enjoy it. Don’t see it myself but hey, liberty.

            6. Yes, people do go to prison for those reasons. Not all of them, but some.

            Well then they’re idiots and they’re right where they belong I suppose.

            >Abortion hurts other people, not only the unborn child, but also the mother.

            And so does drinking and smoking, still their choice.

            >Sounds like slavery. African-Americans used to be considered property.

            More wingnutting.

            >There are pro-abortion medical doctors who say they are concerned with modern abortion procedures and want them to be changed.

            And in that case they will make their case and if it has merit those procedures will be changed.

            >I have no problem with true liberty. That’s why I am fighting for unborn equality.

            No you are not, you are fighting against women having sex and “getting away with it”. Most “pro-lifers” are really anti-sex. You can tell by the way the only life they do anything to save is always in fetal form. You ever protest wars? You ever protest for free pre and post natal care for all women? What if that was a right in the Constitution? Would you approve? What pro-life activities do you engage in outside of abortion?

            > Therefore, abortion is murder, like Salon said.

            Nope. You can only murder people; a fetus is not a person.

            >Science is reality.

            Not exactly, more like science explains reality, only reality is reality.

            > I care about higher moral law,

            Sadly you seem to think it springs from a mythological character that is quite mad and has done some truly horrific and bizarre things so not much value there.

            It also sacrificed itself to itself so it wouldn’t be angry with its creation for behaving as it created them / knew they were going to behave. Loopy as a loon that one.

            > which is backed up by science.

            Science makes no comment on morality. Where do you get these ideas?

            >Peter did not start the Catholic Church, so your problem is solved.

            Well technically Jesus did but he made Peter his terrestrial CEO and again I don’t remember anything about Jesus wanting a bank, in fact he seemed to frown on the mixing of financial transactions and worship. Isn’t it neat how flexible your god becomes?

          • BeyondPolls

            1. I will read it when I get done with The God Delusion, the other horrible atheistic argument.
            2. Yes, but I have no idea where the Bible says the sun is different from the stars.
            4. Good grief, you obviously have a pathological obsession with denying many different historical figures.
            5. Actually, they come from universities. Why are you obsessed with degrading women? Abortion, porn, what’s next?
            6. Who said I was for drinking and smoking? But drunk driving is illegal, btw.
            So you’re not denying the innate racism of abortion.
            Do you care whether or not they are changed?
            You are utilizing a strawman argument. I never said anything about sex. I’m talking about unborn equality. There are other pro-life activities such as special needs equality and elder equality.
            Science says that life begins at conception. The fetus argument has been thoroughly debunked.
            Where do you think morality comes from?
            Jesus started the church and appointed Peter its leader, but that has nothing to do with the Catholic Church. The church isn’t about money.

          • salvagesalvage

            1. What’s so “horrible” about the arguments made in the “God Delusion”?

            2. Yes, but I have no idea where the Bible says the sun is different from the stars.

            1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
            1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

            So your god made the stars then it made the Sun? You do know they’re the same things right? Of course someone who was writing that who could only see the big hot sun and the tiny cold stars would them them radically different.

            Maybe you can explain why it made the grass before the sun and cuz I’m wondering what the grass “ate” to live on. Try growing anything without a sun, unless your god made hydroponics before all that?

            4. Just the ones that are not. Please, show me the evidence for Jesus, no, don’t show me historians talking about Christians, show me eye witness accounts of Jesus from different sources. We have that for Julius Caesar and countless other mortals but not for your god. Isn’t that weird?

            5. Actually, they come from universities. Why are you obsessed with degrading women? Abortion, porn, what’s next?

            See this is more wingnutting, I explained to you why I don’t think it’s degrading and rather than saying I’m wrong by addressing those points you just pretend I said nothing.

            Now do you consciously choose to do that or is it a natural?

            6. Who said I was for drinking and smoking? But drunk driving is illegal, btw.

            I didn’t say you were but do you think you have the right to tell people they cannot?

            And of course Drunk driving is illegal, it hurts people. Drinking is not because it only hurts the person drinking and it’s their body so they can do so if they wish.

            Understand? No, that liberty does not end because she is a woman and thus has no say over her body, it continues to every single atom, including those that make up the fetus.

            >So you’re not denying the innate racism of abortion.

            Yeah, it’s almost like a form of dyslexia being a wingnut, certain kinds of information just can’t be processed.

            >You are utilizing a strawman argument. I never said anything about sex.

            Wingnuts often do this, claim an argument is a “strawman” without actually addressing the point.

            What do you call a woman who has sex before marriage?

            >I’m talking about unborn equality.

            I know, they don’t get any, they’re not people.

            >There are other pro-life activities such as special needs equality and elder equality.

            Ah so fetal life and people on life support, that’s the full width and depth of your pro-life activities? Nothing about war, nothing about better health care? Just fetuses and the brain dead are worth your efforts.

            > The fetus argument has been thoroughly debunked.

            You keep saying that but you don’t provide anything that shows this debunking, no, not “lifesite”, an actual peer-reviewed source please.

            >Where do you think morality comes from?

            A fascinating philosophical question somewhere in society, culture and tradition steeped in environment

            And before you go on about your god being the source please review the last 1,700 years of European history with all those nations in the “cloak of Jesus”. How many wars did England, Spain, France, Italy, Germany and Russia have with each other again? How many atrocities, not just in the recent Holocaust but for centuries before?

            The Reformation Wars, you know about the various massacres? I wonder who Jesus cheered for when they were setting each other’s children on fire?

            Quite the morality your god inspires!

            >Jesus started the church and appointed Peter its leader, but that has nothing to do with the Catholic Church.

            Really? So the Catholic Church is a fraud? Because they seem to think that Peter was the first Pope and I’m pretty sure that’s a Catholic thing.

            >The church isn’t about money.

            Some are, the Vatican certainly is.

          • BeyondPolls

            1. They are in no way philosophically sound. There’s no logic in them.
            2. When does it even give any indication? The sun obviously came before the grass, lol.
            4. The same types of eyewitness accounts of Julius Caesar exist for Jesus. It’s called the four Gospels.
            5. Your explanation was full of wingnutting.
            6. I’ve never really thought about that, but I don’t like it when people smoke. However, we are talking about procedures designed to kill babies.
            Liberty is not giving certain humans power over other humans just because they look different from them. That’s slavery.
            Your claims about dyslexia are wingnutting because the APA can’t even decide that dyslexia is.
            Your question is a leading question, because it takes two to have sex. I would call a couple having premarital sex sinners, but I have no right to judge them because I am a sinner myself.
            They don’t get any because they look different from other people, which is discrimination and no different from segregation.
            Did I say people on life support? I said elderly people, like the types of people the NHS likes to leave for dead. I think most war is useless, but there is such a thing as a just war. But you obviously like to discriminate against ‘brain dead’ people as well.
            I cannot link to my periodicals, but I can direct you to a medical site:
            So since society determines morality, then the Holocaust was okay.
            Yes, the Catholic Church is lying about Peter. There is no historical evidence for Peter’s trip to Rome, just a myth.
            That’s because Catholics are not Biblical Christians.

          • salvagesalvage

            1. That is the exact opposite of true.

            2. So the Bible isn’t in chronological order?

            4. It’s called the four Gospels which is in the Bible. So you’re saying that the Bible says Jesus is true therefore Jesus is true? Why are there no accounts of Jesus outside of the Bible?

            5. I know you are but what I am! That’s an awesome rebuttal

            6. I don’t like people smoking around me, it smells gross and it’s a poison I’d rather not ingest in any way. BUT as long as they are doing it in a place that doesn’t bother me, it’s none of my business. So your argument against abortion being bad for women is meaningless, we don’t legislate people into being healthy.

            No, we are not talking about procedures designed to kill babies, we are talking about a procedure to kill a fetus which is not a baby.

            You can tell by the way medical science calls them different things.

            >Liberty is not giving certain humans power over other humans just because they look different from them. That’s slavery.

            Yes, that is not what abortion is, a fetus is not a human being, it does just look different it is different, one of the important ones is they live inside a person. If you live inside a person you are not a person.

            >Your question is a leading question, because it takes two to have sex. I would call a couple having premarital sex sinners,

            Why? What is the “sin”?

            > but I have no right to judge them because I am a sinner myself.

            Yet you do judge women who have abortions, you go so far to judge them that you want to exert your will on them. Do you see the hypocrisy here?

            Let’s say it’s true, your god is real and he hates abortions (despite making women and fetus randomly die at every stage) it’s it your god’s business to take care of the “sinners”. Why do you get to stick your oar in in any way?

            See even in theism it’s really none of your business.

            >Did I say people on life support? I said elderly people, like the types of people the NHS likes to leave for dead.

            Ha! Ha! Yes! They are monsters who enjoy watching old people die alone with no treatment!

            >I think most war is useless, but there is such a thing as a just war.

            Ah, but not a just abortion, see how pro-life you are? War, meh, whatever, they happen, babies die in them, whatdyagonna do? Abortion WORST THING EVER! We must stop it!

            Because you and your god hate it when women have sex without your permission.

            >But you obviously like to discriminate against ‘brain dead’ people as well.

            Well I don’t want them as my racket ball partners.

            Prolife what in your link? Yeah, I’m smelling some bias there. You do know that pro-life groups like most single issue advocacy groups tend to pick and choose their facts.

            Impartial source please.

            >Yes, the Catholic Church is lying about Peter. There is no historical evidence for Peter’s trip to Rome, just a myth.

            AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH! I LOVE IT! One of the most awesome things a theist can say to me is just that. The other guys? No, no, they’re the ones following myths! It’s MY god that’s the real one while the others are BIG FAT PHONIES!

            Yet both of you have the exact same amount of evidence: zip.

            Why do you think your god made so many religions anyway? You do know that at one point no one worshipped your god? That they all worshipped other gods for a very long time? I wonder why your god let them go on praying to god that weren’t there?

            And when finally your god picked up some attention it was desert tribes raiding each other like bandits.

            Meanwhile the Egyptians, Romans and Greeks were all building civilizations whose standards we carry on to this very day in law, architecture, culture and government. All while worshipping false idols.

            Your god is a strange duck.

            >That’s because Catholics are not Biblical Christians.

            I think they think they are but you’re quite right they do have a great deal of Roman paganism in their rituals. May I ask which sect you’re in?

          • BeyondPolls

            1. Have you ever studied basic philosophy?
            2. The Bible as a whole is not arranged in chronological order. I have no idea where the traditional method of book order came from, but there are some Bibles which arrange the books in the order they happened or in the order they were written.
            4. There are accounts of Jesus outside the Bible, but most of them are nonsense. Yes, the Bible is the final authority on all matters.
            5. Huh?
            6. Then you can’t argue that abortion is ‘necessary’ for women’s health either.

            What medical science? Junk science?
            Downs Syndrome people look different and act different, so by your logic they aren’t human.
            Premarital sex is sin, just like lying and stealing.
            I’m not judging anybody who has ever had an abortion or who has taken part in an abortion. I am crusading that the very action itself should be outlawed. Counseling post-abortive men and women is an entirely different matter and something I greatly encourage.
            It’s not my business to deal with sinners in any way but to love them and to show them the truth. But this does not mean I need to be silent when it comes to standing up for human beings without rights.
            Yes, there are people in the NHS who are monsters.
            There is nothing just about willfully killing an innocent life.
            Why are you so fixated on women? Men are just as much at fault. Are you trying to excuse men? I do not decide higher moral law, God did and does.
            There is no ‘impartial’ source on the issue of abortion. There are sources who are correct and sources who deny and suppress the truth.
            Historical evidence is greatly in favor of Biblical Christianity.
            He never made any religions. Someone has always worshipping Yahweh in human history.
            All of these civilizations could have known Yahweh simply by looking around at creation and wondering where it all came from.
            I am a Biblical Christian, in the order of Jesus Christ and the early church.

          • salvagesalvage

            Meh, bored now.

          • BeyondPolls

            1. I will read it when I get done with The God Delusion, the other horrible atheistic argument.
            2. Yes, but I have no idea where the Bible says the sun is different from the stars.
            4. Good grief, you obviously have a pathological obsession with denying many different historical figures.
            5. Actually, they come from universities. Why are you obsessed with degrading women? Abortion, porn, what’s next?
            6. Who said I was for drinking and smoking? But drunk driving is illegal, btw.
            So you’re not denying the innate racism of abortion.
            Do you care whether or not they are changed?
            You are utilizing a strawman argument. I never said anything about sex. I’m talking about unborn equality. There are other pro-life activities such as special needs equality and elder equality.
            Science says that life begins at conception. The fetus argument has been thoroughly debunked.
            Where do you think morality comes from?
            Jesus started the church and appointed Peter its leader, but that has nothing to do with the Catholic Church. The church isn’t about money.

          • salvagesalvage

            Here is an documentary about Hawkins book:


          • salvagesalvage

            uh huh:


            What I love about wingnuts is the way St Ronnie said “I’m from the government and I’m here to help” is like the worst thing ever! But when it’s “I’m from the government and I’m going to kill someone” suddenly the system works!

          • $36544368

            Bull…two bulls even!…what if the father wants the baby? It took his sperm to make the baby too. It’s her body…but obviously she didn’t have a problem using ‘his’ body for her enjoyment…’unborn children’ are in fact children…as I’ve posted before…if a pregnant woman is shot, for example, in a domestic argument, and she and her baby die as a result, then it’s two murders. But if she doesn’t want the baby, she can abort it, and it’s not murder? You can’t have it both ways…oh…wait….you can if it suits your agenda.

          • salvagesalvage

            But if she doesn’t want the baby, she can abort it, and it’s not murder?

            Correct! See it’s her choice because it’s her body. That’s my “agenda” by the way, women having full rights, terrible I know.

          • lainer51

            HA – Clinton talking about abortion and “said it best” — oh the irony of it.

    • grais

      What about all the folks who Aren’t Dolan?

      • salvagesalvage

        What about them?

        • grais

          Do you dismiss the prayers of everyone?

          • salvagesalvage

            No, I don’t think I would be in a position to do so, however I think their gods do.

          • grais

            If you’re in a position to think their Gods dismiss their prayers, and you’re in a position to dismiss Dolan’s prayers, and the prayers of the Catholic church, why in the world aren’t you in a position to dismiss everyone’s prayers?

          • salvagesalvage

            Huh, you’re right, I dismiss them.

          • grais

            You’re welcome.
            Self-realization is a big step toward maturity.

    • TocksNedlog

      And the liberal disease of absolutism — in this case, of the “Cardinal Dolan ALLEGEDLY covered up the molestation of children by clergy; therefore, nothing he says about abortion is relevant” strain — continues to spread.

      • Lady_Penguin

        Leftist thought thrives on moral relativism. No moral compass, so one is equal to another.

        • TocksNedlog

          Aborted fetuses cannot testify against their attackers.

      • salvagesalvage

        Oh no, no, we are well past the point of ALLEGEDLY it’s all been documented.

        And yes, if you protect and pay off child rapists? You are a worthless human being and your opinion on any subject is equally worthless.

        But my point was the irony of the church crying over the unborn and leaving the born to be raped and abused.

        • Marcy Cook

          Aww come on be brave call it what it is: “child rapists = homosexual pedophiles

          • salvagesalvage

            Yeah, I know it’s important for you to find a reason to hate homosexuals but gay men like gay men not children. Different things are different!

        • TocksNedlog

          Ya know, for YOUR sake, it really is unnecessary for you to reinforce MY point.

          • salvagesalvage

            Is your point that Dolan is scum who should be in jail?

          • TocksNedlog

            I do not know what he did or didn’t do.
            And neither do you.

          • salvagesalvage

            Yes, yes I do, it’s all in the public record from all the lawsuits. You of course choose not to know for fear it might cost you your place in Heaven. That’s how the Vatican gets away with it.

          • TocksNedlog

            And WHAT is “it” that the Vatican is ‘getting away with’?

          • salvagesalvage

            Well aside from the whole child rape thing they have a bank that every ten years or so is caught in a scandal involving the mafia. They tell Africans that condoms don’t help stop the spread of HIV. They own billions in property around the world without paying any taxes (while preaching about how money is evil). They were allies of both the Italian fascists and the German Nazis and right up until the Axis lost they were very keen anti-Semites.

            That’s just off the top of my head but rest assured the Vatican is a hive of scum and villainy and one of the nice things is Ireland has just started to notice. You should Google stories about that, very illuminating.

          • TocksNedlog

            Don’t you mean that it’s
            very illuminati-ing?

          • salvagesalvage

            No, not really…. Oh wait, I see what you did there! It’s all made up like those Brown books! The Vatican has never done anything wrong to anyone!

          • TocksNedlog

            I didn’t make that claim. The Crusades happened; The Inquisition happened — both events initiated by Popes. All I’ve said here is that the Cardinal’s words about abortion were correct.

          • salvagesalvage

            He lied to protect child rapists, his words are worthless.

            And the Vatican’s outrages are not limited to ancient history.

          • TocksNedlog

            When the boy cried “wolf!” that last time,
            And the wolf really was there,
            But due to his earlier deceptions,
            The townspeople ignored him —
            ALL of their sheep were killed.
            They took the moral high ground,
            Of not believing the words of a proven liar,
            And as a result lost their entire flock.

          • salvagesalvage

            Yeah, that’s a great fable only in this case the boy was feeding the sheep to the wolves so not exactly on point.

          • TocksNedlog

            Actually, it is precisely on-point. When a proven liar tells the truth, it is a fool that dismisses said truth based upon the past lies of the truth-teller. People that resist balancing skepticism with pragmatism wind up convincing themselves that, because they distrust the speaker, the truth MUST be a lie.
            Hence, the term “truther”.

          • salvagesalvage

            There are lies and then there are letting pedophiles rape children.

            He is scum, the end.

            But having said that his opinion on abortion is worthless, just as mine, yours and everyone else’s is. The only opinion on abortion that anyone is allowed to have is on their own.

            I know, I know, women shouldn’t be allowed to control their own bodies because a talking snake tricked one into eating a magic fruit and everything’s gone to hell ever since.

    • Joe W.

      Like all vapid liberals, you attack the messenger, while avoiding the message. Bloodthirsty ghoul. Wish I could be there when you stand before the Lord and He condemns you and your murderous cronies…..

      • salvagesalvage

        Yes, in this case I am attacking the messenger because the messenger helped get children raped and then went on to pay off the rapists. He is scum.

        As for your god, well that monster kills babies all the time! From a poorly designed birth canal to floods to the Egyptian first born your god has killed millions. So really who is the bloodthirsty ghoul?

        • grais

          It’s a shame you don’t have a mature understanding of God.

          • salvagesalvage

            Yeah, it’s hard to be mature about a made-up thing. Tell me do you have a mature understanding of the Mormon god? The Muslim one? How about the Ancient Greek ones?

          • grais

            I believe there’s only one God. Always and forever.

          • salvagesalvage

            Sure but your god is just one of about 4,000 that humanity has worshipped for the last 10,000 years. Yours isn’t even the oldest! Weird huh?

          • grais

            Not in the least. I don’t let others dictate or influence my faith. Period.

          • salvagesalvage

            Oh, so you just make it up yourself?

          • grais

            I suppose my use of “influence” was not quite accurate. Throughout my life, I’ve gotten food for though from others. But I stand by “dictate.”
            To know whether I “just make it up,” I’d have to know if anyone’s ever had the same thoughts, wouldn’t I?

          • $36544368

            Weird? Yes, you are.

          • Marcy Cook

            “As for your god, well that monster kills babies all the time! From a
            poorly designed birth canal to floods to the Egyptian first born your
            god has killed millions. So really who is the bloodthirsty ghoul?”

            SO you DO believe in God…you just have a bad image of Him. O.K. that’s a start …. at least you believe.

          • grais

            I had to laugh at “poorly designed birth canal”
            The design’s been working pretty well for a good long time.

          • salvagesalvage

            Ah rhetorical tricks, always a sign of a weak debating position. No, as I have made it clear I know ere are no such things as gods, not Zeus, not Jupiter, not Odin and not yours.

            I am referring of course to what you believe and the Bible makes it clear your god loves to kill people and will do it on a whim.

          • grais

            You don’t Know there are no such things as gods; you Believe there are no such things as gods. No one Knows if there is a God or not.
            And don’t forget: men wrote the Bible.

          • salvagesalvage

            No, I know in the same way I know there is no such thing as dragons or leprechauns or fairies or anything supernatural.

            But yes, men did write the Bible and they did a terrible job to boot.

          • $36544368

            What Bible are YOU reading? I love it when someone takes a scripture out of context to use against a Christian…foolish is as foolish does.

          • salvagesalvage

            The same Bible as you, you didn’t read the bit where your god kills everyone with a flood? Destroyed whole cities? Demanded wars of conquest and genocide in its name? What about the rise of Christianity? That took several civil wars in Rome and that many more in the rest of Europe? Your god love violence or at least views it as useful.

        • Joe W.

          He is your God, too, Sparky. And you can reject Him as you wish. He grants you that choice. As for your other “comments”?? I’ll not dignify them with a response. I will, however, pray for your salvation. Even as you would rather I did not. Have a great day, Sonny.

          • salvagesalvage

            No, not my god, doesn’t exist you see. And tell me which version of Christ do you follow? The right one obviously but is that Catholic? Baptist? Protestant? Mormon? Coptic? So are all those gods yours? Theirs? Isn’t is weird that your god’s story is so confusing that its spawned so many splinters? You’d think a supreme being with an insatiable appetite for worship would communicate its wishes with perfect clarity. Oh we’ll, maybe it just likes war.

          • grais

            You’ve let Man’s interpretations influence you, and anger you…even the interpretation that God does not exist.

          • salvagesalvage

            Ah yes, the ” it’s people’s fault that they don’t understand my god!” But your god is all powerful right? So why can’t it make its message so clear that misinterpretation would be impossible?

          • grais

            His message is not in any book. Man’s ideas are in those books.

          • salvagesalvage

            so you don’t go to any church or read from the Bible?

          • grais

            I very rarely do either.

          • $36544368

            Tell me…I’m curious…what do you use for a moral compass…what just stops you from lying, stealing, hurting other people physically, etc…and God has made it very clear that He is who He says he is so that you have no excuse. If you want more information (which of course you won’t), I’ll be happy to expound on that.

          • salvagesalvage

            Empathy, my up bringing and the law seems to be more than enough for me but apparently you need a god to be good. So if there was no god you would be lying, stealing, hurting other people, etc?

            And I don’t think your god is very good at being clear, how many different versions of Christianity is there again? Which kind are you? The right kind, obviously, but why do all those other kinds think they’re right? Did your god lie to them and tell just you the truth? Do all those other fake Christians just not get it? You’d think your god would make more of an effort to ensure Christian unity but right from the start there were schisms. Guess your god likes people fighting over it.

          • Marcy Cook

            Interesting. Actually all people, even though they were separate from one another, have a story about God/Supreme Being/ Great Spirit. They have different names but they all tell basically the same story of a great being since the beginning of time. Must be something to it. And although you only speak of God as a being that does harm…how do you explain the many good people throughout time? Where does the good come from?

          • salvagesalvage

            Yes, it seems that every culture comes up with their own unique gods, man always makes gods I their own image. The reasons for this have been detailed in many books and papers on anthropology. The short reason is humans hate not knowing the answers to stuff so much so that when we don’t know we make them up. So primitive people wanting to know what the sun was called it a god some 10,000 years ago.

            As for the good that’s a philosophical question that is again far more complex than an answer of “Jesus!” could answer.

    • Lady_Penguin

      Illogical thinking on your part. “Fetuses” are unborn children killed before they could be born alive to thrive and live. Just like you.

    • $30423294

      I’m nagged by the question of how deep a thinker you are. So here’s a test.

      How many of the molesters do you think are homosexuals?

      Careful, the answer you give completely defines your credibility in many ways. I’ll give you as long as you need to answer the question.

      • salvagesalvage

        I have no idea but I do know that a homosexual is attracted to adults of the same sex not children. That would be a pedophile, very different.

        What I do know is that the Catholic church was well aware of the problem and their only concern was protecting their reputation so they never called the police or even kept the rapists away from children! This went on for at least 75 years if not more.

        I know, I know, they were all gay and it was the hippies from the 60s fault. Losing Vietnam wasn’t enough for them! They had to wreck Jesus too!

        • $30423294

          You have no idea whether the molesters were gay but you are certain that they couldn’t possibly be.

          You’re back on my ignore list.

          • salvagesalvage

            Gay means your attracted to the same sex, pedophile is when you are attracted to children. No one is upset that the church covered up consenting adults having sex.

            Do you see the difference? It’s pretty obvious.

          • grais

            No one is upset?!?
            WTF are you talking about?!?

          • salvagesalvage

            Hmm we’ll I guess average homophones would be upset but gay people always piss them off so it goes without saying.

            However the various churches around the world are not being sued because they covered up consenting adults having sex, they are being sued for letting pedophiles rape children.

            See the difference?

          • Noah Lee

            which public school did you attend?

          • salvagesalvage

            The kind that didn’t teach my iPad how to auto-correct properly. But hey if my typos make you think you’re right then I’m glad they brought you comfort.

          • Noah Lee

            I’m not gonna refute anything you said. you went full whacko a couple posts earlier and you are way out past Pluto now.

          • SJ’s Dad

            homophones? . . . SFB gave itself away at “we’ll” I guess . . .
            more likely responding from taxpayer funded computers inside the pedophile ward, seems to have a lot of 1st hand knowledge!

          • wwbdinct

            So if they’re attracted to children of the same sex, it doesn’t make them a gay pedophile, it just makes them a pedophile. Uh….right. Sure.

          • salvagesalvage

            Correct! A pedophile is attracted to children, sometimes the same sex, some times a different sex but always a child. This is bad or obvious reasons

            A homosexual, like a heterosexual is attracted to adults who have developed sexual characteristics.

          • $36544368

            I swear, if I didn’t know better, I would think that salvagesalvage is Michael Hampton using another user i.d. They talk alike…right down to the syntax of their sentences.

          • salvagesalvage

            I don’t know who that is but he sounds very clever.

        • Marcy Cook

          Prove this: “a homosexual is attracted to adults of the same sex not children.”

          This is the truth: Adult men abusing male children = homosexual pedophile.

        • Ailsa Nordstrom

          If you “knocked up” a woman, don’t you think you have some say over what she does with YOUR unborn child?

          • salvagesalvage

            Nope, I could only tell her what I would want but since the fetus is inside of her body my opinion would be of limited value. It’s her body and its her say, that’s a right I demand for myself so it would be the hight of hypocrisy to take it away from anyone for any reason.

          • wwbdinct

            Ugh…forget it. You’re too far gone for humanity.

          • salvagesalvage

            Yeah, when women become pregnant they cease to have any rights and you get to tell them what they must do, that true humanity!

          • $36544368

            Thank you Ailsa…I posted that earlier…nice to have some company on that point 😉

    • lainer51

      why does it have to be one or the other? Obama cares for neither.

      • salvagesalvage

        Yes! He is a monster who hates children and loves abortion because he is a secret Muslim terrorist who hate America and has destroyed it these last four years!

        • lainer51

          finally, you speak some truth.

    • $36544368

      If you were in the same room as me, I’d slap you…Jesus would have covered up sexual abuse and pay off molesters? Are you truly out of your mind? You are one sick, sick, sick individual.

      • salvagesalvage

        And I would laugh and laugh at how much like Jesus you are! He was very big on violence wasn’t he? And you should read what I said, you seem to have missed the point.

        • $36544368

          I have read all your responses to me. I have not missed your points. Unfortunately, your points make no sense because they come from a place of anger, hostility, and ignorance. The only point I agree with, and truly appreciate, is that you say I am like Jesus…that’s what I aspire to be like in this life. As far as the rest of your responses, there’s no use wasting any more of my time and energy in trying to have a conversation with you, because we are obviously from two entirely different planets. Continue to reply or badger me, or insult me, or troll here all you like, but after this response, I will not be responding to you. So understand that you may hear ‘crickets’ when you write back, but I’m choosing to ignore you. I’ve not ever been fond of talking to walls, and that’s what it feels like reading and responding to your posts.

          • salvagesalvage

            Aw wingnuts, they always end these things by running away.

            And yes! I am angry! Grrrr! Grrrr!

            And no, you are not like Jesus as you are real and Jesus is not.

  • Lady_Penguin

    Tears for murdered children, but not for murdered babies. That’s the disconnect of the Left and their propaganda machine. This is genocide, history will report the truth someday.

    • $30423294

      And their abortion fetish is a necessary complement to their self-absorption.

      In order to keep that body super-hot, or to stay rich, or be free to party and be cool like the porn stars who studded Obama’s consecration yesterday, ya gotta be able to kill a few innocent babies.

      Think I’m kidding? Listen to their words. They say they don’t personally favor abortion, they just want it to be an option.

      Exactly. If all goes well, a narcissist won’t have to face the prospect of being pregnant.

      But if it doesn’t go according to plan, the narcissist wants the option for an easy out. They feel suffocated by even the possibility that they might have to get fat and dependent — or as their president says, “punished” — with a baby.

      A grown up, an adult, finds a way to make life work, come what may. A person whose growth is stunted at adolescence wants a free pass. Why? Because they are special.

      I suspect that deep down even leftists know this. That’s why they defend their despicable culture of death with made up stories about 30,000 women being murdered on Super Bowl Sunday every year. See? How can I have a baby if men are murdering women all the time?

      Their lines are old and worn out. They have no credibility anymore. What they do have is government funding.

      Abortion fetishists, we are on to you.

      • $36544368

        I just wish those who support abortion would understand that it is not a form of birth control!!!

        • $30423294

          It’s even worse than that. My daughter showed me a facebook post by a girl who said she loves that she got skinny after her abortion. I asked, is this a joke? My daughter said totally not a joke.

          I feel as if I were Sheriff Brody in Jaws when he saw the size of the monster they were dealing with and said “we’re gonna need a bigger boat.”

          We Catholics have a saying: we are living in a time of unprecedented evil which requires a time of unprecedented grace which we trust is given to us by our God in his infinite mercy.

  • Joe W.

    Those who engage in and advocate the slaughter of the innocents through abortion are no better than the troubled young man who used guns to slaughter 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Evil is as evil does, and abortion is evil to the core. Jesus weeps. And so do I…..

    • Shawn

      I do agree with you on that one, I have been saying this for awhile now

  • TocksNedlog

    What a week! Yesterday we had the four year anniversary of the day our hopes & dreams died, and now . . .

  • Josephine (D)

    There’s a Pew poll similar to what NBC is reporting, but it’s distorted:

    I find it interesting that many modern-day “feminists” support abortion “rights”, but forget that Susan B. Anthony, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, and their contemporaries were majorly pro-life.

    And I just LOVE the hate my Church is already getting on this thread, and it’s not even noon yet! >.<

    • Joe W.

      I am an evangelical Christian, but I fully support the Catholic Church in their fight against the tyranny of the Obama regime. Mistakes have been made, to be sure…but to condemn the entire church for it is preposterous, yet fully expected from the ravenously rabid liberal moon bats. Hang in there, Josephine.

      • Shawn

        But the catholic church supports obama on gun control….so I think you have it wrong about the tyranny part.

        • Joe W.

          I do not think so. The Obama regime is mandating that the church provide abortion services. THAT is tyranny.

        • Josephine (D)

          Actually, the Catechism supports the right to defend yourself. While I have seen some individual churches host gun buy-backs, I have read anywhere in the Catechism or any encyclical that says that guns or gun ownership are immoral.

          • $30423294

            St. Thomas Aquinas actually says you have a moral obligation to defend yourself. Especially if you have a family.

            The Church teaching isn’t something that can be easily placed into sound bites, unfortunately.

            But we’re here :) That’s a good start!

        • Rulz

          I’m Catholic, and frankly the Vatican clearly hasn’t looked at all the facts. They would be wise to do so and see that areas with conceal, carry have the lowest crime, even lower than in Europe.

        • JINNASH

          Too often people confuse the Church’s prinicple(or objective) with policy.
          Example : Help the poor. Many reputable Church scholars have made it clear that this is an objective but NOT a call for wealth redistribution. In fact, I think it was Pope John Paul II who said that the laity run businesses and governments according to Chirstian prinicples. And as we know, there are many ways to help the less fortunate, especially with private charity and/or economic grow(opportunity not to be poor any more).

      • Rulz

        Thanks, Joe.

        • Joe W.

          You’re wlcome…

      • lainer51

        why did Obama get 55% of the Catholic vote in 2008 and 50% in 2012? I just can’t figure that one out.

        • Joe W.

          Beats me. I don’t understand how he got any votes at all, to tell you the truth.

          • lainer51


      • JINNASH

        Thanks Joe
        From another proud Catholic!

  • Mario Leone

    I wonder how many of those nuns rode the bus telling everyone to vote for Obama and Democrats to push social justice…

    • Marcy Cook

      I guarantee you that those nuns in the habits did not get on the Nuns on the Bus. The nuns you see in the habits are REAL nuns.

      A great many nuns, however did get on that bus promoting obama. Probably a majority of nuns are rabid liberals that push social justice up the wazoo. They also love socialism, because in actuality that is how they live. They live in a “religious community” and are dependent on each other for their money and care. They love socialism. I know…I work for them.

  • sleazyrider

    Savage reminds me of on old adage: “The intellect is the whore of intelligence.”